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Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

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Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#211

Post by s1artibartfast »

platevoltage wrote: post #57
murderfs wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. You're basically just using it as a proxy for general intelligence, the _average_ physics major's IQ is around 130.

Yep. IMO that's the way ANY degree is looked at (aside from Medical, Law, etc.. you know the drill). You want a lower level administrative job? You better have a degree so we know that you're not stupid. Now you get to pay off your loans with 20 bucks an hour.

I worked at a fortune 50 company that hired engineering graduates with masters degrees as contractors to break down cardboard boxes and manage stockrooms.

The degree was just a fancy filter if could read and write. If they worked out, they would be eventually hired direct into less mindless tasks.

Not all of the contractors were worth retaining.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#212

Post by nickd2001 »

platevoltage wrote: post #183
iamwpj wrote: post #155

I was self taught for 10 years in the field and found a program that offers a Master's degree with work experience accounting for the undergrad. I didn't take calculus or stats in my undergrad and that has caused some headaches in completing the degree, but the amount of stuff I was exposed to in such a short period of time was incredible. Very quickly into the program I was stuck by just how unethical it was for me,…

A masters with no undergrad? I didn't even know that was a thing.

In the UK there's this :) https://www.open.ac.uk/postgraduate/qualifications/f66. No entry reqs at all. I've a friend who for various reasons back in the day got no secondary school (high school) qualifications i:e no GCSEs or A levels, no undergrad either, but did an apprenticeship and ended up as a software dev , did an Open University MSc and ended up with a Comp Sci Phd ! Open University always seems fantastic to me but maybe US employers would expect Americans to have an American qualification? Regarding your original Q to do the degree at all, absolutely, worth it for the mental development, also there are some great jobs out there that do require a degree and a shame to miss out. Having taken part in a sift for junior developer positions, the applications we get have a lot of cr*p, many people with bootcamps plus half-arsed / plagiarised GitHub. Those with a Real comp Sci degree plus some experience really do stand out.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#213

Post by fooker »

platevoltage wrote: post #189
fooker wrote: post #168

> Does it matter? Yes. > online CS degree. No. Most of the value of a degree is the connections you build and get opportunities through. You're not going to get much better at software development. You'll learn some core CS/math concepts that can help later if you want to get into niche roles though. But that's not something most people benefit from, by definition of 'niche'.

I'm more concerned with my ability to get past the filters/hard requirements.

That's where a good network helps much more than a degree.

Get referred or better, knowing the hiring manager makes every filter a moot point.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#214

Post by nickd2001 »

platevoltage wrote: post #30
YZF wrote: post #23

I started my professional career without a degree a long time ago. I did a few years of Comp.Sci. (and math) but didn't finish. I then finally got the extra credits to finish years later so I'm a proud bachelors of compute science (it did feel good the decades ago when I completed it). Once I had real experience getting a job was not a problem. That said, getting some specific job at a specific company might be hinde…

Thank you for your response. I'm not really interested in specific companies. I'm really NOT interested in FAANG type companies. I have however seen many listings where I was like "this fits my knowledge and interests perfectly other than the degree requirement" - While I'm interested in the paper, I absolutely love learning everything I can about computers. I'm super neurodivergent, and have trouble learning things…

"this seems like the worst time ever to work for the government" - might be some satisfying and important opportunities in 4 years time sorting out the most horrendous mess. (assuming you guys actually get to choose someone different then ;) )

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#215

Post by mixmastamyk »

nvarsj wrote: post #190
mixmastamyk wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the privacy on that? Have an aversion to being watched on camera, etc.

During exams you mean? They swapped to honorlock which seemed way better and less invasive than proctortrack. It’s a necessary evil unfortunately.

Someone mentioned going to a testing center, maybe it’s an option? Although they could put you on camera/facial recognition as well.:-/

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#216

Post by mixmastamyk »

platevoltage wrote: post #182
RamblingCTO wrote: post #126

I'll say yes. I am the only one in the company that has a degree (MSc compsci). I know stuff the others never heard of. Your exposure to obscure things in uni are really worth the time for deeper topics. I focused on machine learning and had classes like operations research, non-linear optimization or complexity theory & approximation algorithms and I kid you not, I could make use of these things quite a lot to find…

Thank you. Yeah, I would do Comp Sci. I wont say that I know everything about software development. Not even close, but I do think I'm in a position where I have the ability to continue to learn on my own. I mostly want the paper, but I'd be lying if I said I couldn't stand to drastically improve my CS fundamentals. Most of what I do is Typescript/Javascript, but I'm also into embedded development, for which I'm way…

Community college near by probably has comp architecture and assembler classes, which fill out the low level knowledge.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#217

Post by platevoltage »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #203
platevoltage wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you confidently say that they don't use degrees to rank candidates in any way?

oh, for L3 or entry level, I'm sure they do. But they didn't even ask me about a degree, in fact my boss didn't ask until a year after i'd been working for him. So yes, there isn't a degree requirement, and for senior+ people, they don't care at all. For lower then that, I can't say, i'm sure it matters more the lower the level.

but do you have a degree? and if so, was it on your resume. The place where I always got stuck was getting that first call. In the few interviews that I've had, I've done okay. I've moved past the technical interview in every case, although besides my internship, I wasn't given an offer. I was wondering if they use degrees to rank applications.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#218

Post by platevoltage »

Sammi wrote: post #127
platevoltage wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most relevant response yet. Thank you. This is exactly the category that I'm in. A couple of years ago I applied to a large company, with a referral. 0-2 years experience and a non-specific bachelor's required. I got my rejection in 15 minutes, after business hours. My resume didn't even see human eyes. Did I mention I had a referral?

That sounds hard. I got my bsc and msc in cs in 2015 exactly because I was afraid of this. I know maybe a couple of guys who've had successful careers in cs despite having no degree. Those guys are especially talented and industrious. Real rock stars. I'm an average slob in comparison and I feel lucky to have my papers, as I have a decent track record of getting interviews. Small local companies seem to respond the b…

To be honest, Large financial organizations such as this one don't interest me much. I would rather work at a smaller company.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#219

Post by platevoltage »

taurath wrote: post #179
platevoltage wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most relevant response yet. Thank you. This is exactly the category that I'm in. A couple of years ago I applied to a large company, with a referral. 0-2 years experience and a non-specific bachelor's required. I got my rejection in 15 minutes, after business hours. My resume didn't even see human eyes. Did I mention I had a referral?

This is exactly it - I have been thrown out 3x with a referral because no degree. Almost all of these were Java shops doing absolutely fuck all in terms of innovation while having an engineering team of hundreds - it seems like the majority of coding roles are these design pattern and degree checkboxes with the slowest, most “enterprise” apps imaginable.

I have an unrelated question. I'm not a Java dev, so I don't really get this, but I keep hearing it. I've heard, and maybe this is an exaggeration, that "scrappy innovative startup types" avoid candidates with only long term Java experience, because that tends to show a dispassion for programming. Is there truth to that? Do Java devs learn Java in college, and just do Java from then on without expanding their knowledge outside of that ecosystem?

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#220

Post by platevoltage »

scarface_74 wrote: post #200
platevoltage wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't surprise me.

I am 50 and don’t have anything to prove. I’ve done my time at a “FAANG” and the only reason I’m not at another one right now is that they insisted on RTO. Also I rather get an anal probe with a cactus than ever work for any large company again.

I hear that. My 3 months with Akamai felt like the absolute best case scenario for big corporations. It was pretty good, but I am just not wired up for the corporate cringe that comes with any organization like this.
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