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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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201–210 of 276 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#201
post #152

I wouldn't think of the remarkable 2 as "less than" an iPad. Part of the point of it is that it is completely focused on being a paper replacement. It doesn't pop up random notifications at you while you're trying to think, and it doesn't offer the opportunity for distraction when you get momentarily stuck on something, which makes it a lot easier to power through. It's like how not having junk food in the house make…

You can trivially disable notifications and remove games/social media from the iPad.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#202
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that still hold for the reMarkable 2?

yeah, I have the reMarkable 2 myself. It's an amazing device. The only downside is really the cost. It's premium quality like an Apple device (the unboxing is a trip) and it's hackable on day one.

That, and the lack of documentation on repairability. I mean, I don't want to invest $450 on a device I can't fix or change the battery down the line.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#203

I remember buying my first LCD display in the CRT era. It was tiny, thick, ugly, and of course expensive. Now they’re cheap and everywhere. The same will happen with e-ink in time. Honestly I would rather have the iPad for note taking. Response times are important for rapid idea translation, and e-ink systems are very lacking here, whereas the iPad is not. Probably an unpopular opinion, but it’s my own experience.

The iPad also has a massive library of software. There is an app called “Concepts” which provides an infinite canvas in all directions and it seems really useful for engineering and design type people where you can just draw an idea in the middle and move outwards with notes or alternate revisions. All in color, with pressure sensitivity.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#204
post #86
post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Got mine a week ago. I always take notes and draw mind maps while working on a project, so this fits perfectly. I like the pen and paper sensation, the fact that my handwriting is exactly the same as on paper, the ability to erase, rewrite, cut and paste. I don't like the flaky sync but love seeing my drawings as PDFs. The LiveView function almost doesn't work but a third party app allows me to display the tablet on…

I installed KOReader so I could rotate papers 90 degrees and read them without squinting. Would highly recommend

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#205

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Why can't a Chinese company clone their product and kill them?

They could easily clone & kill the technology itself. The problem comes from the fact that e-ink is worthless unless it is attached to a device with really strong vendor support. And any vendor worth a damn doesn't want to be the target of a billion dollar lawsuit.

So the choice is between an overpriced device from a major player, or a cheap device with next to no support from a no-name vendor.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#206
post #81
post #28

I suspect an additional reason: their customers are not very price-sensitive. They obviously can't compete with paper on price, so they don't even try.

I'd be a customer if the price was lower..

Well, wording the OP alternatively. They know they can never beat the iPad on price so they don’t try to squeeze their price as much as possible and instead choosing to make the device more premium and keep the business sustainable.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#207
post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

The one thing that's kept me from getting one of those is the measly 8 GB storage and not even having an SD card slot.

It doesn't seem that measly to me. By my estimate, it would be enough for my collection of academic papers I'm saving to grow to about 4,000, which, at my current reading rate, gives me about 40 years of runway.

It wouldn't be much for a phone or tablet. But phones and tablets also need to be able to store apps, photos, videos, and audio content.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#208
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also takes time for manufacturers to design and produce. Even if someone had rushed out of the gate in 2018, they would probably not have ad products ready for a couple of years (and last year there was covid too) - and this with the most basic tech, which we know actually took significant time to be refined. I think a more realistic timeframe for usable eInk patents is 20 years from the first Kindle release, so 2…

> Even if someone had rushed out of the gate in 2018, they would probably not have ad products ready for a couple of years (and last year there was covid too) - and this with the most basic tech, which we know actually took significant time to be refined. Ignorant question: are you not allowed to start developing a product, or "planning" to develop a product, before a patent it infringes on expires? I see from glanci…

> Is it that you literally can't fully make the thing, i.e. only get 99% of the way there and you're fine?

Lawyer-no-longer-practicing-patent-law here: You have to look at each individual, numbered claim (at the end of the printed patent). Treat each claim as its own infringement checklist, with each term in that claim as a checklist item. IF: Every checklist item in that claim is present in what you're doing, either literally or, as an edge case, by a "substantial equivalent," a term of art; THEN: That claim is infringed. (It only takes one infringed claim for liability.)

A canonical hypothetical claim is this: "1. A seating structure comprising: (a) a generally-horizontal seating platform; and (b) at least four legs, of substantially-equal length, each affixed, substantially orthogonally, to the same side of the seating platform to extend in the same general direction relative to the seating platform."

For that hypothetical claim, a tripod-style three-legged stool with angled legs wouldn't infringe because four legs are required for infringement. (There'd probably be an argument over whether the angled legs satisfied the "substantially orthogonally" element.)

For the same claim, suppose that you had a conventional four-legged chair with a back. That chair would infringe claim 1 because the checklist elements are all present; the addition of the back is irrelevant to the infringement analysis.

(In chemical- and biological fields, extra elements can be relevant to infringement analysis, for reasons we won't go into here.)

Another edge case: If you "induce" someone to infringe the claim, you're liable as an infringer. Still another is "contributory infringement," which I won't go into here.

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> Or is it infringement to have an on-the-record chat with a buddy that you're thinking of working on X when the patent for X expires?

No infringement there — for infringement to exist, someone has to actually make, use, sell, offer to sell, or import the subject matter of at least one issued claim of the patent.

(Usual disclaimer: I'm not your lawyer, don't rely on this as legal advice about your specific situation, small changes in facts can sometimes make a big difference in outcome, etc.)

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#209
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

But what are we talking about though? We're talking about how this technology is unavailable for nearly all usage, and prohibitively expensive for any actual use. It effectively doesn't exist.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#210
post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

I’ve had the same thoughts about the iPad. Do you know if you can use reMarkable as a display screen to draw on for video conferencing? If it could I’d probably just buy one now.
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