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Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

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Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#21

Post by mvitorino »

majewsky wrote: post #18
mvitorino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% of people used to work in agriculture and now less than 5% do in most modern countries and also, as a result, there is a lot more food to go around. Automation has been around for a while now. It's not a new problem and hasn't caused society to collapse yet. As to alternatives to Capitalism, Communism was one that promised a more "equitable" way of living...

Ah, the old fallacy that absence of capitalism equals communism. Yet humankind existed for millenia before either system was introduced.

That is not what I said. I merely mentioned that one of the possible alternatives was Communism. I do not know any alternatives that have worked and instead of pointing out a non existing fallacy, I would expect someone to actually point to viable alternative to Capitalism instead of simply being critics of it.

Also Capitalism is as old as the notion of personal property which predates any notion of State.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#22

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mvitorino wrote: post #20
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more inefficient than Capitalism, which is its Achilles heel. Socialism works when there is 'free' production to fuel it. Like in the Netherlands. It fails when the money stops pumping in, like Venezuela. Automation may provide the free input that makes a more humane (more Socialist) system work for everybody?

There is no such thing as free production because resources are not unlimited.

Oil out of the ground is the nearest thing then. Once its automated, it has negligible marginal human cost.

Or, did that mean something about 'poor planet we're exhausting its resources'? Then never mind.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#23

Post by chinathrow »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #4

The modern luddite movement is already here. A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. This is not an isolated experience, many other countries (Columbia, France, Brazil) have the same problem with violent angry mobs trying to shut down a…

> French politicians similarly surrendered to the terrorists.

How do you feel calling someone striking a terrorist?

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#24

Post by eswat »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16
cdiego wrote: post #15

We are destroying the natural world, without respect or harmony with nature. Itsn't the automation the real problem, its our relations with others people or kind of life.

Perveresely, with automation taking jobs that leaves people more time to spend in nature. So we'll be returning to harmony?

Doubt it. We’ll just create other work opportunities for those being displaced by automation. Google "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren" or http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/26/no-time

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#25

Post by JoeAltmaier »

eswat wrote: post #24
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perveresely, with automation taking jobs that leaves people more time to spend in nature. So we'll be returning to harmony?

Doubt it. We’ll just create other work opportunities for those being displaced by automation. Google "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren" or http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/26/no-time

Yeah weird. In the '50s we wrote stories about automation removing the yoke of labor from everybody, freeing us up to be our better selves. Now we panic that Capitalism is threatened and invent stupid ways to patch it up (make-work, mandatory service etc).

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#26

Post by douche »

jayjay71 wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings? Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machi…

In the event of a popular uprising, the semi-automatic hunting rifles owned by many of the public would actually be more effective against police/military units and their body armor than many military rounds. .30-06 has more power behind it and leaves a bigger hole than 5.56 NATO.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#27

Post by JoeAltmaier »

douche wrote: post #26
jayjay71 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings? Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machi…

In the event of a popular uprising, the semi-automatic hunting rifles owned by many of the public would actually be more effective against police/military units and their body armor than many military rounds. .30-06 has more power behind it and leaves a bigger hole than 5.56 NATO.

True, but rate-of-fire is often the more important feature of a weapon.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#28

Post by rayiner »

jayjay71 wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings? Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machi…

I'm not sure that matters, as long as people have some sort of guns. Watch the show Jericho. The bulwark against tyranny is an all-volunteer military. The real threat is replacing Iowan boys with robots.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#29

Post by yummyfajitas »

chinathrow wrote: post #23
yummyfajitas wrote: post #4

The modern luddite movement is already here. A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. This is not an isolated experience, many other countries (Columbia, France, Brazil) have the same problem with violent angry mobs trying to shut down a…

> French politicians similarly surrendered to the terrorists. How do you feel calling someone striking a terrorist?

Why are my feelings relevant?

If you must know the answer, I feel like a person who's read a dictionary and knows that terrorists are people who use violence and intimidation to achieve their political goals.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#30

Post by madgar »

chinathrow wrote: post #23
yummyfajitas wrote: post #4

The modern luddite movement is already here. A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. This is not an isolated experience, many other countries (Columbia, France, Brazil) have the same problem with violent angry mobs trying to shut down a…

> French politicians similarly surrendered to the terrorists. How do you feel calling someone striking a terrorist?

I bet they feel pretty good. It's the internet, after all. Isn't the whole point for a lot of people that there's no consequences for their words?
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