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Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

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Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#21

Post by AndreyErmakov »

znpy wrote: post #18
znpy wrote: post #17

Dublin ? It's right there, many big companies already have their offices there, English is the official spoken language, it is basically a far as uk to reach from the point of view of any European citizen, and it is cheaper (I guess). Taxation is lower BUT actually enforced: there is no such thing as City of London corporation, isle of man or crap like that. I guess it is less "developed" than London, but becoming th…

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. ATMs and self-dispensers (example: bus/subway ticket machines) are poorly translated to English, for example. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English. In Milan, Italy, bus and subway stops are announced in both Italian and English, public tra…

Actually, you can live there quite nicely without German. The basic vocabulary to get around easily is rather small.

What you can't do without German is to integrate in the society. Which is pretty tough even if you speak German. Without it you're basically disconnected.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#22

Post by mstipetic »

znpy wrote: post #18
znpy wrote: post #17

Dublin ? It's right there, many big companies already have their offices there, English is the official spoken language, it is basically a far as uk to reach from the point of view of any European citizen, and it is cheaper (I guess). Taxation is lower BUT actually enforced: there is no such thing as City of London corporation, isle of man or crap like that. I guess it is less "developed" than London, but becoming th…

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. ATMs and self-dispensers (example: bus/subway ticket machines) are poorly translated to English, for example. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English. In Milan, Italy, bus and subway stops are announced in both Italian and English, public tra…

I've been living in Berlin as an expat for almost 2 years now and absolutely everybody speaks English. I'm actually having trouble learning German because of how ubiquitous it is.

The ticket machines are really simple, select region, select type of ticket and input money, how badly can they translate it?

As for the bus/subway, they stops are announced in German, but how hard is it to figure out "Nächste Station," and even in more complicated cases you can pick up the few words you need to understand. Even the hobos speak English.

Startup meetups, events, investor talks all happen in English, I work in a company where the official language is English, as is in most larger IT companies.

For basic communication you should also put in a little effort to learn a few German phrases (which is the polite thing to do) for necessities, and you'll have no problems.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#23

Post by letitleak »

phatfish wrote: post #14
BjoernKW wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that. Actually, quite likely it will. One of the main arguments of the "Leave" campaign was curtailing immigration as in effectively reducing it to zero. Now, of course this isn't actually possible and Farage and others are already sheepishly back-pedaling on most of their bold claims. If this whole Brexit affair is supposed to make any remote se…

Immigration was the main argument because that is what people wanted to hear, and got the opportunists like Boris a shot at more power. In reality it is not going to happen. 1. When have politicians ever followed through with a promise they made? 2. Not even the Brexit bunch are stupid enough to intentionally cripple the economy, especially as immigration was an issue for a demographic of voter the Tories actually ca…

The British as non-EU can't get a better deal than the Swiss as a non EU Schengen area member.. I think the British will either lose more control of immigration from this vote or be pretty crippled by poor EU trade agreements leading to the US learning to deal direct with the mainland.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#24

Post by kafkaesq »

znpy wrote: post #18
znpy wrote: post #17

Dublin ? It's right there, many big companies already have their offices there, English is the official spoken language, it is basically a far as uk to reach from the point of view of any European citizen, and it is cheaper (I guess). Taxation is lower BUT actually enforced: there is no such thing as City of London corporation, isle of man or crap like that. I guess it is less "developed" than London, but becoming th…

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. ATMs and self-dispensers (example: bus/subway ticket machines) are poorly translated to English, for example. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English. In Milan, Italy, bus and subway stops are announced in both Italian and English, public tra…

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English.

Well, yeah -- it's like, a foreign country, you know.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#25

Post by niftich »

European hub? Hub of what? There's no Silicon Valley in the EU, so both talent and industry is decentralized. Brexit won't change this.

London will remain an important node, but without additional incentives (ie. subsidies) no single place will take over the roles that it fulfills now inside the EU's talent market.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#26

Post by kafkaesq »

hocuspocus wrote: post #15
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low. Exactly. You can't whine about the lack of talent and at the same time offer 50K-60K EUR to senior engineers... I'd say, "cheap labour" is (was?) the main reason one might find Berlin attractive.

With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin (I'm 2 minutes from my office, in the most expensive part of the city). Many people mention London in this thread and even assuming a 60% raise (not impossible but not so easy either from what I've seen) I'm not sure I could live 2 minutes from work in central London. When I interviewed with Palantir they were offering 700 GBP/month to people who live within 15 minute…

With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin

Except that people contemplating a move from elsewhere -- especially from outside the continent -- need to think about certain things beyond their immediate living expenses. Like, you know, building savings buffer for the (inevitable, for most) return home, and maintaining a salary level not astronomically far off from what they can get in other major hubs (simply to not have to flinch at that inevitable question, "How much are you currently making?").

Which is what is fundamentally broken with the idea that salaries just need to match local living expenses. 80K salaries would do a lot to bridge the gap for outside talent, and wouldn't cost all that much more -- and in any case not nearly much as the opportunity cost of missing business opportunities due to not being able to assemble performant teams.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#27

Post by hocuspocus »

kafkaesq wrote: post #26
hocuspocus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin (I'm 2 minutes from my office, in the most expensive part of the city). Many people mention London in this thread and even assuming a 60% raise (not impossible but not so easy either from what I've seen) I'm not sure I could live 2 minutes from work in central London. When I interviewed with Palantir they were offering 700 GBP/month to people who live within 15 minute…

With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin Except that people contemplating a move from elsewhere -- especially from outside the continent -- need to think about certain things beyond their immediate living expenses. Like, you know, building savings buffer for the (inevitable, for most) return home, and maintaining a salary level not astronomically far off from what they can get in other major hubs (simply to…

I relocated from another continent. My company gives decent relocation/signing bonuses, so I assume our competitors do too.

Again, I'm all for higher wages in Berlin, but let's be realistic, the market rate is what it is, no company in its right mind is going to hire someone asking for +50% with no good reason.

Also, this thread is about European tech hubs. Have a look at average startup salaries in London, Paris, Nordic countries, ...

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#28

Post by kafkaesq »

hocuspocus wrote: post #27
kafkaesq wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin Except that people contemplating a move from elsewhere -- especially from outside the continent -- need to think about certain things beyond their immediate living expenses. Like, you know, building savings buffer for the (inevitable, for most) return home, and maintaining a salary level not astronomically far off from what they can get in other major hubs (simply to…

I relocated from another continent. My company gives decent relocation/signing bonuses, so I assume our competitors do too. Again, I'm all for higher wages in Berlin, but let's be realistic, the market rate is what it is, no company in its right mind is going to hire someone asking for +50% with no good reason. Also, this thread is about European tech hubs. Have a look at average startup salaries in London, Paris, No…

No company in its right mind is going to hire someone asking for +50% with no good reason.

They can give up on the idea of recruiting people from major hubs (SV/London/NYC) then.

Generally people who have some sense of reasonableness and proportion (that is, who don't aren't fixated on the dollar amount of their salary to the exclusion of all other factors) don't mind taking a bit of haircut to live in a greatly more affordable area (and to do interesting work).

But a 50% haircut ($120K to $60K) is really a hard pill to swallow for such folks.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#29

Post by [deleted] »

kafkaesq wrote: post #24
znpy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. ATMs and self-dispensers (example: bus/subway ticket machines) are poorly translated to English, for example. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English. In Milan, Italy, bus and subway stops are announced in both Italian and English, public tra…

The sad thing about Germany is their loathe for the English language: you basically cannot expect to fully live there without learning German. For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English. Well, yeah -- it's like, a foreign country, you know.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#30

Post by zhte415 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #10
marvel_boy wrote: post #3

London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.

> London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that. Actually, quite likely it will. One of the main arguments of the "Leave" campaign was curtailing immigration as in effectively reducing it to zero. Now, of course this isn't actually possible and Farage and others are already sheepishly back-pedaling on most of their bold claims. If this whole Brexit affair is supposed to make any remote se…

The immigration argument was never about skilled workers. London itself voted heavily in favour of remaining. Immigration was a stirred-up debate citing unskilled eastern european workers taking low paid jobs, heeding and feeding the insecurities of areas of the UK which are and have been economically depressed for decades.

I expect visas for skilled workers to quickly become very, very easy, and visas for unskilled workers impossible.

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