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Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

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Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#191

Post by dredmorbius »

ramphastidae wrote: post #74
dredmorbius wrote: post #9

Any system capable of running OpenWRT. https://openwrt.org/supported_devices You might find / inquire about specific devices at the OpenWRT subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/openwrt/ The Turris Omnia is priced above your preferred range, but is effectively a small server and has excellent capabilities. It runs a specifically-tuned and live-upgradable version of OpenWRT: https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/

IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. There’s a non-trivial chance you will spend hours and hours reflashing your router and reading forum posts until you eventually brick it. It’s just like Raspberry Pis. Theoretically the right choice but practically speaking a huge time sink and poor, unstable experience that is best left to hobbiest tinkering or networking…

The Turris Omnia is preconfigured with OpenWRT, specifically tuned to the hardware, and auto-updates.

It's cloud-free, spyware-free, adware-free.

The default configuration works with the same basic configuration any consumer-grade system would require.

Extensive configuration capability is offered through either of two graphical front-ends, the basic Turris, the advanced Luci, or for those who prefer talking in words rather than gestures, a highly capable Linux system residing underneath.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#192

Post by wkearney99 »

windexh8er wrote: post #141

It really depends on the functionality and performance you want. Given the price range the performance side will be on the low end. I would recommend moving up your price-point (if at all possible) and buy something slightly more capable that will last, potentially, longer. Protectli [0] and Qotom [1] are popular among the OPNsense[2] / PFsense[3] / Untangle[4] firewall distros with respect to small form factor devic…

I've had a fanless Qotom running pfsense for wire-speed (gigE) routing for several years. Set-and-forget, no moving parts. The wifi runs separately, using Unifi atm.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#193

Post by fartcannon »

numpad0 wrote: post #189
fartcannon wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it's a download and a 'flash' in a GUI. Probably couldn't be simpler. As for reliability, my house has two of the same routers - one runs openwrt, the other runs the factory default (unfortunately it's not mine, so I can't just change it at will). Can you guess which is unreliable? It's the factory default. This is not to mention the security implications of having a non-open source router. Never trust a third…

Say you pick up an average HNer and if they couldn’t pick up a Pi make it do a barrel roll in couple days, you might be disappointed. But if you could give them an Amazon URL and he could set up a Wi-Fi infra with >95% SLA in 5 minutes, there can literally be cost difference measured at $10k range, for a minor detriment of having an annoying router in the household. There are the other kind of HNer who are that pilla…

I just don't believe this is true.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#194

Post by [deleted] »

ABeeSea wrote: post #73
cma wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New netgear stuff only works without a cloud account when you unplug it from the net. That means no remote admin through a local machine (have to be there to pull the plug), and no settings changes without disrupting internet.

I just logged into my new netgear router from 192.168.1.1 without unplugging anything.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#195

Post by JeremyNT »

garbagecoder wrote: post #137
fartcannon wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me if this sounds arrogant, but I think the general HN user is capable of handling the relatively simple UI based download and flash required to use OpenWRT. Likewise, using a raspberry pi is probably trivial for most developers. If not, I'm being under paid.

I think most people are capable. It’s whether it’s worth it. I loved learning more about Linux and networking with it, and loved having automatic cell failover, but at the end of the day, it was too unreliable. So, forgive me for how this sounds, but the general HN user probably needs a reliable as possible internet link.

This is very different from my experiences. You need to spend a little time setting up any router, and the only meaningful added step for a basic working configuration when compared to stock is the flashing process. Once you have it working, in my experience, it's incredibly reliable.

Whatever issues you had are not the common path IMO. I've run openwrt essentially for as long as it's been a thing and the only instability I ever had was due to my ISP. I'm sure if you end up with some esoteric, poorly supported, or flaky hardware things can be different, but this is far from universal!

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#196

Post by Jnr »

ryantgtg wrote: post #177
Jnr wrote: post #171

You can't really go wrong with Mikrotik. They are affordable and have a lot of powerful features. I have been using the "hAP ac" (2.4/5ghz) model for ~5 years now, and some other 2.4ghz model for another 5 years before that. Whenever I need to upgrade, I'll go with them.

What are the indications that you need to upgrade (aside from "device has broken")? I've been the same using an 802.11n (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) since 2014, as well as the same modem since 2014. Aside from flashing a newer version of dd-wrt every four years, I don't think about my modem/router much and I don't know what I'm missing! Speed at my house is fine for my needs - however, my coverage doesn't seem perfect (notabl…

I suspect I will upgrade when I go from 1 GbE to 100 GbE for local network. After looking at storage speeds and other things, it seemed like I should just skip 10 Gigabit altogether (cheaper to get additional faster NVMe SSD drives for local devices). And the AC wifi is completely sufficient for my needs. Upgrades won't be needed until all the ISP's finally start offering >1GbE at home. Who knows how many years it will take.

And when it comes to software updates - I still receive them. Even my 10 year old Mikrotik router got upgraded to the new v7, with Wireguard support, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#197

Post by fundad »

kubik369 wrote: post #156
fundad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dedicated APs but don’t have a nice router. I haven’t figured out if using APs for Wi-Fi and using my ISP’s router for routing loses me any speed. Does anyone think an additional NAT layer could improve performance? I imagine it’s features vs performance

It's not really features vs performance. I don't know where you are based, but here in Europe ISPs must (I think?) put the router into bridge mode upon your request, from which point you can use whatever you want and the box from ISP acts mostly as a modem/media converter. I was even able to cut out this part by using an SFP GPON module I found! Regarding speeds, it depends on what you are working with. Basically any…

Thanks so much!

I’ve always had low cost and fast enough service. I moved outside of the wired service area and use 5G cellular home internet which while slow compared to global standards, it’s the fastest home internet I’ve had.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#198

Post by kubik369 »

ryantgtg wrote: post #182
kubik369 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be best to run wires with APs to those dead spots. If that is not possible, make it possible. If it is really not possible, then you have the option of powerline adapters or mesh networks, but those are a mostly inferior solution to running a cable and putting an AP there. I recommend not even thinking about repeaters if you are not desperate. Don't forget that the APs can be powered through PoE (Power over…

Thanks, that was a really useful reply. I could probably run a wire (once I figure out where). Do you recommend a router that doesn’t use wifi, and the wifi comes only from APs? This is not something I had ever considered prior to reading the comments in this post. I’m concerned this is going to be a rabbit hole..

It really depends on what you want/need. Since I realised that I don't need to only have a single device, it just makes sense to me to have them separated. When you want faster wifi, you upgrade the access points. If you need router with better capabilities, you buy a new router and still have your perfectly well functioning wifi.

I like OpenWRT and not needing to research whether some device's wifi will work is a plus for me. You can of course still have a router with wifi capabilities, I just found that separating them makes upgrading to new devices easier. I can also keep using my older devices - I used an ASUS NT-14U router for a few years. It was great, it had plenty of RAM and flash for the time, OpenWRT run great on it. Then I wanted to upgrade to 5GHz wifi, but I just run into problems with router+wifi combos having inferior wifi performance on OpenWRT compared to stock device - usually only half the speed an sometimes even unstable. Then I realised I could just buy new 5GHz APs and keep using my old router. I have been mostly happy with my home network since that realisation. I bought some TP-Link Omada "small business" APs (EAP245 and EAP225-outdoor) and knock on wood I didn't have any problems that I can recall for a few years already. People also usually recommend Ubiquiti APs and devices, but I have never really gotten into that and the TP-Link offering seems to be a better bang for my buck.

If you are able to run a wire, do it, even if it means some more initial work or it being a little ugly at some spot. It is just simply more reliable than the other options. Your future self will not thank you, because he will not even realise how smoothly everything is running ;)

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#199

Post by dredmorbius »

antihero wrote: post #66
dredmorbius wrote: post #9

Any system capable of running OpenWRT. https://openwrt.org/supported_devices You might find / inquire about specific devices at the OpenWRT subreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/openwrt/ The Turris Omnia is priced above your preferred range, but is effectively a small server and has excellent capabilities. It runs a specifically-tuned and live-upgradable version of OpenWRT: https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/

Does OpenWRT still mean that speeds are slower due to not having proprietary drivers?

Not to any significant extent AFAIA, though specifics will depend on the device, components, and drivers in question.

In almost all cases, OpenWRT extends rather than restricts device capabilities.

That said: choose your hardware based on OpenWRT support if at all possible.

Re: Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

#200

Post by david422 »

b112 wrote: post #162
ABeeSea wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just logged into my new netgear router from 192.168.1.1 without unplugging anything.

I wonder, fall for the trick, setup cloud, and you are forever trapped?

I dunno, I've had netgear forever, before they ever had cloud logins, and I've just set it up the exact same way every time. Maybe if I was buying my first netgear today I would be suckered into the cloud stuff since I wouldn't know any better.
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