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Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

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Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#191

Post by moo360 »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #166
moo360 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man, you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship This isn't really that important at all. I don't really recognise this as a specific asset in any way. > The tech career opportunities outside of US are really not that diverse and are heavily scattered across the world That's an extremely biased and, in my opinion, incorrect view. Even if you just take the big tech capitals in Europe - London,…

Salaries are much lower.

While I agree they are lower, not much lower, but lower. That's simply because of the market rate. I have some experience hiring devs in London and NYC so can only really comment on those two cities.

You see approx ~20% reduction in market rate salary for a given full-stack position in London vs NYC. However there are factors that the simple NET salary comparison doesn't take into account. Do these factors negate the difference? No, not entirely - but they do reduce that percentage down quite significantly. The major one, which will be of no surprise, is healthcare.

The addition of free healthcare for your family is unlikely to be equal in value directly to the entire 20% salary difference. However, often the fact is it might be worth it anyway just to not have to deal with that, often stressful and extremely difficult to budget for, expense.

These aren't the only QoL differences between the two cities, others are often rather personal/bespoke to the candidate.

The point being comparing net salary between two completely different countries is often not even close to the full picture.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#192

Post by kobeya »

zhte415 wrote: post #189
verbify wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ratio of savings:spending lets me know when I can retire early. Using exaggerated figures, if I earn 100k in the US, save 10k a year but I spend 90k, then it's going to take me longer to retire than if I earn 35k in Europe, spend 30k and save 5k. Because in the US, it'll take 9 years to save enough to live off one year, while in Europe it'll take six years to do the same. Of course you can move to a cheaper count…

You are taking the exactly correct way to think about savings: asset-liability matching, and being realistic about it (not imagining you can move to a new place because 'retired', so do, but many can not do so successfully).

But many can, and do. To each their own.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#193

Post by toomuchtodo »

afarrell wrote: post #145
kbouck wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pension If you move to Europe, build up a pension, and then move back to the U.S., you should be able extract the money from that pension (according to the conditions), regardless of where you reside in there future. > taxes You are obliged to report all of your foreign earnings to the IRS as well as all of your foreign bank account status each year. You are taxed on your income both in the local country and in the…

You can ether use the foreign earned income exclusion (which I think has risen to closer to 100k) or the foreign tax credit. You also want to take extensions so that you can qualify as a nonresident, or you will pay the ACA penalty for not having health insurance.

If you live outside of the US for 330 days a year, you're considered exempt from ACA coverage requirements.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#194

Post by winteriscoming »

johnomarkid wrote: post #17

If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa. Your standard of living in Europe will vary. Sure, some places offer free healthcare (not exactly free - see taxes), better public transportation, and decent quality food at lower tier supermarkets. That's all great. On the other hand, you'll likely take a huge hit in salary and pay high…

>> If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa.

For someone like me who doesn't understand German language, is it possible to go on with the daily life interacting with the locals in English?

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#195

Post by EduardoBautista »

moo360 wrote: post #191
EduardoBautista wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries are much lower.

While I agree they are lower, not much lower, but lower. That's simply because of the market rate. I have some experience hiring devs in London and NYC so can only really comment on those two cities. You see approx ~20% reduction in market rate salary for a given full-stack position in London vs NYC. However there are factors that the simple NET salary comparison doesn't take into account. Do these factors negate the…

Health insurance is commonly provided by employers if you are a software engineer.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#196

Post by zhte415 »

kobeya wrote: post #192
zhte415 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are taking the exactly correct way to think about savings: asset-liability matching, and being realistic about it (not imagining you can move to a new place because 'retired', so do, but many can not do so successfully).

But many can, and do. To each their own.

Indeed. But shouldn't assume the can, because that kind of assumption something many cannot survive.

Sensible planning is asset-liability matching.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#198

Post by [deleted] »

orbz wrote: post #25

I spent a few years living and working in Europe with EU companies or US subsidies there. The one main gotcha that no one thinks about is the tax and retirement savings side of things, both of which you should probably do. As a US citizen you're obligated to file (and possibly pay) taxes no matter where in the world you work and reside, no exceptions. It's the price of having US citizenship and access to the US embas…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#199

Post by [deleted] »

iagooar wrote: post #85

I assume you want a career as a software engineer. This is my list: - Berlin: cheap (getting expensive quick, but still cheap for a large city), multicultural (many, many people from all around the world, lots of people speak English, those who don't usually understand you), Germans themselves are very open and interesting as a nation. Berlin has a vibrant startup scene, which is nice for getting your first job as a…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#200

Post by futhey »

johnomarkid wrote: post #177
kazinator wrote: post #171

Note that USA citizens living abroad, no matter for how long, are required to pay USA income tax. The only way out of this parasitic arrangement is to give up your citizenship. The USA charges hefty fees for citizenship renouncement. They know you're doing it for money and want to squeeze something out of you before you get away for good.

This is misleading. Income of up to $101,300 is excluded. Also, tax credits are given if the amount you pay in the country you live in is higher than what you would have been paid in the US. Given that a salary of $101k in Europe is unlikely, and that taxes are almost always higher in Europe than the US, you do not need to worry about paying income tax to the US. You do, however, need to file a tax return. I don't su…

Correct. One thing to remember, the $102,100 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion only applies if you spend 330 days of the tax year abroad or have legal residency in the other country (and even in that case you're not supposed to spend more than a few months residing in the US).
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