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Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#181

Post by layer8 »

stcroixx wrote: post #137
latchkey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just turned 50 in October I'm turning 50 this month and a professional developer since I was about 21-22. > I think the lack of TDD being as widely adopted Hilariously, I just got -4'd (and a whole thread) for asking why someone didn't just write tests, instead of building some half baked tool to debug their websocket app. The responses were all sorts of absurd excuses. I'll happily take the negative karma, cause…

You're old enough then to have used message boards before they turned into a popularity contest with voting. It's easy enough to just ignore those features entirely.

I was about to upvote your comment but then noticed the contradiction in doing so. :)

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#182

Post by JohnFen »

makz wrote: post #69
javcasas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

39 here. I'm significantly better than in my 20s. Much more knowledge and wisdom, a bit less raw brainpower. But I know I can force myself through hard stuff (prolog, category theory, ML research papers) but only if I can kick out instant gratification for a while (reddit, hn, videogames). I remember this week more than 10 years ago where my graphics card died, and had to go with this ancient card with zero accelerat…

37 here. I’m probably slower than in my 20s but somehow I feel smarter. I feel it takes me less time to learn new stuff and solve complex issues.

You probably aren't any slower. One difference that I think I've noticed between older and younger devs is that older ones tend to be slower to actually write code than younger ones are. But the code they write tends to be closer to correct, so less time is needed refining and debugging it.

So it can look slower up front, but over the span of the entire task, it's faster.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#183

Post by JohnFen »

codr7 wrote: post #141
xpe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less tolerance? What do you mean? I’ve found my outward tolerance has had to increase. I still have an internal drive to shape outcomes in more meaningful directions. This has driven (or perhaps co-evolved with) the development of a wide range of skills to be persuasive and nudge people. People can be so incredibly narrow-minded, short-sighted, inspiring, and/or wise, sometimes in the span of two sentences. Dealing w…

This touches upon something I've noticed lately, people skills are at least as important as technology and raw intelligence. I'm 46 and have been writing code pretty much every day since 8yo. I used to think code was the greatest thing, and would gladly write it for free. But I was also very arrogant, too impatient to negotiate, and didn't really give a damn about the team as a whole. These days I find writing code p…

> people skills are at least as important as technology and raw intelligence.

They absolutely are, especially in a team environment. In terms of the quality and velocity of the team's output, the competent dev who works well with the rest of the team is nearly always better than the genius dev who doesn't.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#184

Post by JohnFen »

asdfman123 wrote: post #110
lallysingh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, so much of is BS that it's physically painful to keep up. Look, someone reinvented a basic lisp-ism in their mediocre language! Yes, new buzzwords for each part that was a function parameter to the original system! Yay! Now you can reduce your boilerplate by 10%! The system is still an unmaintainable ball of mud, but at least your for() loops can now have ridiculously high jitter and concurrency landm…

I think a lot of reasons older people encounter resistance is they don't want to play along with the BS. Lots of 20-somethings would have no trouble working with a graybeard in his 50s if he was patient, played along, and acted as a mentor. But they don't want to work with him if he's rude and dismissive, and there's more of them than him.

> But they don't want to work with him if he's rude and dismissive

Nobody wants to work with a jerk, regardless of their age.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#185

Post by JohnFen »

asdfman123 wrote: post #148
softwaredoug wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, the avg age of someone starting a company is 42[1] :) I honestly think its truly just about filtering BS. I get hungry about the right things. Just like I get passionate about the right relationships. But not goin to drop everything for someone that shows the tiniest bit of interest me like maybe when I was young and had no idea what kind of relationship I wanted. 1 - https://www.entrepreneur.com/business…

By hunger I mean the raw chutzpah and energy to do something bold, or commit to going in a brand new direction. Not necessarily the capability to do so. Older people typically have more money and connections. If anyone could start a company I guarantee you more young people would start companies. And not to mention experience. You may want to start a company when you're younger, but it's harder when you don't know wh…

> By hunger I mean the raw chutzpah and energy to do something bold, or commit to going in a brand new direction

I haven't actually noticed a decline in that with age. But what I have noticed is that the more experienced a person is, the sooner they're likely to spot when a new direction is probably a dead end and avoid going that way in the first place. Less experienced people tend to have to actually walk in that direction for a while before realizing it's going nowhere.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#186

Post by JohnFen »

grepfru_it wrote: post #155
belter wrote: post #146

The Ageism present in the Software Development industry, is a sign of its still ever present immaturity. While in any other field...Who want's their house designed by the youngest, freshly graduated Architect? Who wants to be operated by a Surgeon on it's 2nd heart operation? Who wants the Junior Partner Lawyer supporting them on their court attendance? What would the Abel prize winners think? https://abelprize.no/wi…

Wrong professions. Who wants the old man mechanic?

Me.

Or, more properly, I want the most experienced professional (for anything) that I can find and afford. Age is a rough proxy for that, but it isn't ironclad.

I'd prefer the 60 year old who has been working on cars since they were 20 over the 30 year old who started at the same age. But I'd also prefer the 30 year old who has been working on cars since they were 20 over the 60 year old who started at 55.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for older developers?

#190

Post by kokanee »

JohnFen wrote: post #101
kokanee wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my mid-30s and facing the reality that I do not want to be a manager, but have a hard time picturing myself coding into my 60s. I'd be curious to hear more about what in your eyes separates "certain parts of our industry" that aren't suitable for older devs from those that offer good jobs which pay what you're worth. What kind of attributes would you look for in a company or product if you were searching for a…

Yes, I too have learned that I'm happier being a dev than being a manager. This is very much broad-brushing and there are plenty of exceptions, but in general I've found that startups, FAANG-style companies, and companies that seem more focused on making products as a vehicle for using new technologies (as opposed to using appropriate technologies to make better products) tend to have a greater prejudice in favor of…

Thanks for your thoughts! Appreciate it.
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