The reason? Too many users.
If you don’t want to tolerate something there’s always another user who will. We think of users as more like cattle that have to be herded through various funnels and protected from wolves (hackers).
Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
181–190 of 383 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? If a socialist government thought collecting data was a good idea and directed its resources that way, would that okay? My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.
> What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? It's the one doing the data collecting in our lives.
Parent's point is that you'd be a lot less likely complain about even worse data collection if you lived in China, and it was done in the name of the "people" - but you wouldn't be quieter because you really believed it was for the people. You'd be quieter because you were scared to say things about the System.
You're lucky to live in a System that pays you to have a public opinion about it.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#183Something I've noticed as I've started to more actively try things with crypto wallets(which have made inroads on being identity/login solutions) is that there is a refreshing transparency and friction to the on-chain interactions. There are many things that cost a fee and make the wallet prompt for my password again when interacting with blockchains, but I haven't used Ethereum, so I've never seen a fee above a micr…
Example: Registering an ENS domain theoretically costs $5 but you have to factor in $65 in ethereum gas fees. And it's not a good idea for privacy.
Typical use is: transfer funds from an exchange wallet to your metamask wallet -> use metamask to register your ENS name -> choose your twitter handle as your .eth name -> oops, you just very publicly and irreversibly told all the world about your exchange wallet history.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not a cricket. I told you what to do, dont use that software, dont accept the license or terms, uninstall, deactivate, deny. Read a book, go hiking. You arent forced to use shit software.
Oh boy, tell me how you do tax reports with the amazing experience of pen, paper and standing in a window. I bet you're outsourcing misery rather than avoiding it.
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Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me.
> Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? If a socialist government thought collecting data was a good idea and directed its resources that way, would that okay? My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.
> My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.
On this, no one ever bought a Roku because they expected it to upload something.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#186As far as user-hostility on the web and in consumer products and services goes: it's there because there is no good honest economic model.
Everything online has to be free, which means companies have to find some sneaky underhanded way to finance it. They have to find a way to monetize you since you won't pay, and in many cases you can't pay because there is no good mechanism.
People will retort by pointing out that many things you pay for have adopted user-hostile practices too. That's true. The problem is that without a simple honest economic model it is impossible to do business online in any other way. an honest straightforward economic model is necessary but not sufficient to create products and services that are not user-hostile.
The other ingredient that must be there is user preference. People have to vote with their wallets and go toward ecosystems that don't treat them this way. But if there are none to begin with because everything has to be "free," then people don't even have that option.
... and no, open source is not an option for non-technical users. If my time is valued at $80/hour and I have to spend two hours a month maintaining something, that thing costs $160/month. That's pricey.
Edit: The "constant release" pressure is a kind of SEO phenomenon. Searches tend to use liveness as a lazy metric of quality. People do this too. So something that's constantly pushing out trivial releases looks more alive.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#187Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…
> Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software
Moreover, no one is forced to write dark pattern software. It's probably safe to say that most dark-pattern software is the result of a voluntary, monetary transaction between employer and employee. People are knowingly writing this software on purpose, for money.
Let's see a show of hands of people in this community who wrote dark pattern software for their boss instead of quitting. Where is this software coming from if not from a community of people like the ones here at Hacker News?
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me.
> Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? If a socialist government thought collecting data was a good idea and directed its resources that way, would that okay? My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.
It's the global economic system, and it's incentives and structures drive decisions that individuals and companies make. Seems pretty relevant to this discussion, and most discussions since many if not most of our choices are economic ones.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Users are the last ones to blame. If anything it’s policy makers, investors and industrialists. If you want to participate in society, you need a smartphone, and guess what? The whole world is okay with only 2 companies doing this….
I feel a constant tension where companies and governments are all but demanding everyone owns a smartphone with one of these two specific operating systems for all sorts of things (from banking, to authentication, to government services), but have to somehow facilitate the remainder of users as an afterthought. It makes a lot of things really suck, and that's ignoring all those walled gardens essentially requiring th…
More insidious is the requirement to have an account with Google or Apple.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#190Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…
> Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing.
Come on. This is bullshit.
https://www.businessinsider.com/unredacted-google-lawsuit-do...
"When Google tested versions of its Android operating system that made privacy settings easier to find, users took advantage of them, which Google viewed as a "problem," according to the documents. To solve that problem, Google then sought to bury those settings deeper within the settings menu."