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Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#161

Post by iandanforth »

Grim-444 wrote: post #45

How did you arrive at 3 days? Why not 2? Why not 1? Why work at all when we can just print ourselves money until it all collapses? Do you own a business where you've allowed your employees to work different sized workweeks and were able to evaluate the changes in productivity? What data do you have to back up any of your viewpoints that's more substantive than just believing whatever people on reddit or elsewhere on…

If you'd like to learn more about the four-day work week there is plentiful material. For relatively recent studies I'd start here:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=four+day+work+week&hl=e...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#162

Post by Dylan16807 »

dsugarman wrote: post #89
overlordalex wrote: post #13

To maybe throw the question back - what have you done to make 3 day weekends a reality? The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious, but if you look at the history of labour rights I dont see why anyone expects it to just happen without a massive amount of organising

>The way the post is worded right now seems to be phrased in a way that 3-day weekends are blindingly obvious Seems like all anti-work propaganda (ie: r/antiwork) to me, there's no meat. You could turn this post into an inductive proof saying it is so obvious that having X-1 days is better than X days of work until you get smacked in the face trying to hand wave that 1->0 will have no impact on productivity.

So what if there's an impact on productivity? Productivity has increased far more than necessary since the last time we adjusted typical hours.

I'd compare it to getting rid of smaller coins. Sure, it would cause some rounding hassle, but the last time we got rid of a coin the smallest remaining one was worth more than a 2020 quarter.

It seems pretty obvious to me, based on the non-linear utility of money, that as productivity increases the ideal work week shrinks. Is that not a good enough sketch of a proof?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#163

Post by henryfjordan »

sokoloff wrote: post #151
henryfjordan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it isn't obvious who should reap the benefits of productivity gains, but that means it is also not obvious to me that the capitalist should get it compared to the employee. We created a system that heavily favors the capitalist starting with the Industrial Revolution. Prior to that most of society was subsistence farming. Encouraging capital investment in new machines and factories through laws/policies…

You literally noted above that 100% of the gains are not going to the capitalists but rather are being split (using your numbers) around 5:2 among capitalists and workers. But, remember, that’s before considering the impact of healthcare costs (which are majority paid by capitalists and majority benefiting the workers).

Fair enough on my "100%" math, you are correct.

I'm not so sure about the healthcare argument. The link I included above compares productivity to compensation. I'd assume compensation includes the value of benefits like healthcare but I could be wrong. I'd also argue that many of the rising healthcare costs are being rewarded as profit to the capitalists so it might not be as cut-and-dry even if healthcare is a large source of the pay-productivity gap.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#165

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

t0mas88 wrote: post #96
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they will just make everyone part time. The implicit threat here is withdrawal of benefits - specifically health care insurance

Huh what? You don't get health insurance when you work part time in the US?

Correct. This is how our country works because we are a nation of fools who worship the most wealthy among us.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#166

Post by _oghd »

Grim-444 wrote: post #45

How did you arrive at 3 days? Why not 2? Why not 1? Why work at all when we can just print ourselves money until it all collapses? Do you own a business where you've allowed your employees to work different sized workweeks and were able to evaluate the changes in productivity? What data do you have to back up any of your viewpoints that's more substantive than just believing whatever people on reddit or elsewhere on…

the fact that you have to have owned a business to be allowed to have an opinion about working productivity to so fucking telling about capitalist ideology

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#168

Post by seti0Cha »

jrumbut wrote: post #82
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #38

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay. I don’t find the 5 days/week to be “irrational”, “irrational” to whom? It’s completely rational from an employers perspective that they have a job to fulfill and it requires employees to complete the job. If they have people working 4 days /week, they need coverage for the other days. It’s not rational for the custo…

No one from September 2019 would believe you if you told them about the work from home policies in place right now for millions of people who were expected to be seated at their desk at 9:00 (or 8:30) until 5:00 three years ago. The world isn't static, tradeoffs can change.

I think part of OP's point is that there would be tradeoffs. Reducing work hours by 1/5th will reduce work output by some large fraction of that. Companies would have to compensate for that by hiring more employees or reducing their products or services, either of which will tend to increase prices. Price increases or wage cuts would cause people who are in constrained financial situations to have to look for a 2nd job, thereby negating the effect of the policy. Sure things can change, but there are underlying realities which constrain how they can change.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#169

Post by wahnfrieden »

nemo44x wrote: post #152
wahnfrieden wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contract standards at some point in history don't dictate ethics just as laws don't either. it's not as obvious and rule-based as you suggest. it's also peculiar in my opinion to point out worker laziness without apparent recognition of the worker-employer power dynamic where wage theft vastly outweighs so called time theft dollar to dollar

You can rationalize all you'd like, but you made an agreement under sound mind and choosing to not fulfill it is slacking. It's dishonest. Wage theft or anything else is immaterial to your agreement. You are free to leave at any time and market yourself to another employer if you no longer wish to partner with your current employer. Or, if you feel your agreement is no longer fair or meets your goals, you can speak w…

you're atomizing the solution space by saying that workers must negotiate their conditions individually with their employers directly. that's not how this stuff has changed in the past and how we got to where the current status quo is with contracts. you're even repeating union busting talking points that are hardly settled ethics

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#170

Post by [deleted] »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #127
egypturnash wrote: post #119

Please allow me to answer your question in the form of some more questions. Why are all the bosses trying so hard to get everyone back in the office? Why are people working from home being subjected to all kinds of "productivity tracking" that results in things like special cradles to put your mouse in to keep it moving around so you look like you're at the computer when you're actually staring off into space thinkin…

> Why has the US minimum wage only barely begun to budge past the $7.25/h it was set to in 2009, despite that being below poverty lines for most of the country? Nobody actually gets paid $7.25/h. Amazon pays $15/h or more nationwide. That's a baseline. In HCOL areas shitty big chain jobs like Target/Chipotle/Starbucks pay $18-22/h and restaurant servers make 25-30. Making those numbers bigger just enriches landlords…

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