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Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#161

Post by zcw100 »

15kingben wrote: post #112
aeortiz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes a chord because I struggle with social anxiety...I wouldn't want to go out for a beer with any coworker, only with friends I've vetted over months/years. I hope I am in any other way capable of being a good engineer. Should I not be hired because of it?

I think "wanting to go for a beer" is a pretty bad metric for many reasons, not the least of which is that I don't like drinking beer. A better metric might be: "If I need help would I regret asking this person?" or "If I had a disagreement would it be an overall positive experience?" I have worked with people who excel technically but that skill is largely offset by the negative effect they have on social interactio…

I don't think it's a bad metric (it really isn't a metric at all) but it's a bad example. It doesn't have anything to do with going out or drinking beer. I think there's a negative connotation because people interpret it as, "Less talented developers who can schmooze and socialize will get ahead". I don't think that's what this means at all. It's that writing software is a team sport and thinking that you can go it alone and that interacting with teammates isn't important is a flag right there. Your skills generally only effect yourself. If you're on a team of 10 your own personal skills are only 1/10 of the contribution. Worst case is you aren't that good but the damage is limited to 1/10th. If you've got problems interacting with people you can take out the entire team. Am I going to come in on Monday and have 5 developers at my door telling me about all the crap you pulled? Larry says you told him that you're just being honest but his code sucks. Susan says you revered her code and then made a monster commit touching nearly everything without telling anyone. Apparently you spent the entire weekend reworking the entire build system to some new system because according to you it's way better than what we are using and now no one can get any work done until they figure out what you've done nor did you get permission to even make the changes. Then to top it off insulted the entire team by implying they were too stupid to see how awesome what you have done is and they should be thanking you.

How are you going to fix this? If you were a weak developer there are things you can do to about that. Fixing a persons inability to get along with others is more difficult. So now they're in the position of firing you. You'd have to be really bad not to make it an unpleasant business and afterward it's going to take weeks to shake off the bad feelings.

As a hiring manager I'm never going be given a hard time for passing on what might have been a good candidate but I'm definitely going to hear it about hiring someone who makes their lives miserable on a daily basis.

See the problem now? That isn't a description of you but they don't know that but they've probably had experiences like that so they're simply playing the numbers at risk mitigation and when you give them reason to think that might be the way things are going to go they pass.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#162

Post by readonthegoapp »

i don't do dev anymore -- dev-adjacenet maybe -- like i might do some role at a big-ass company called 'app dev sr advisor' -- but it would be a little sql, etc.

point is, i get a shitton of interest, and i work to blast out my resume, and even send targeted resumes. but i haven't closed anything after a _lot_ of interviewing -- two solid months. actually, will be three months soon. i've made it to a few finals rounds. not sure why i'm dying at the final stage.

small company today i talked to were pretty much all assholes. i thought that was strange. i've been on calls where 1 of 3, or maybe 1 of 2, was an asshole, hated me from the jump, but not 4 of 5 -- that felt super-strange. it's kind of a run-of-the-mill sf area startup.

but my take-away after the call was....everyone is stressed because republicans are trying to kill us all, on top of covid adding this constant, immediate fear of suffering, bankruptcy, and death over our heads. so, most everyone in the coding class is making money hand over fist, way outpacing inflation * 100, but if you can die tomorrow, what's the point of it all? it puts you in a bad mood. you can't even go to the gd bar and watch a game without wondering if you're killing yourself and your family.

and, so, people are broken. civil society is breaking down. i don't know what it's like to live in another country during covid, but i suspect it could cause social breakdown even if one of the two political parties wasn't committed to mass death.

the odd part to me was they were asking me about my moving around to different jobs -- i was like, bros, y'all been here for a couple months, and you fired most of your C-level execs in the past two months, and said most of various departments had turned over because 'the company was at a different stage now'. tf?

hopefully another, different offer comes thru.

but i got that gd raincloud following me around, too.

not sure there is any solution for you, unfortunately.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#163

Post by bjourne »

dusted wrote: post #153
bjourne wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is that the app is crap, everyone knows it is crap, but it's a faux pas for the new person to say it? If so, it seems it is not really about the crappy app but more about the in-group pecking order . Wish adults would be mature enough to forgo things like that.

Thing is, context means something to people, a new person coming in starting shitting all over everything has no context for saying that, they may be right, but the don't have any shared experiences of why it is so, and that makes a difference. Having suffered through things together, it makes a difference, it softens the words, or at least, it points them away from people, and into situations, situations of the past…

Not having knowledge of the context should work in the new persons favor. They don't know how the app was developed, or what everyone else thinks about it, but can immediately recognize that it is crap and dares to say so. Bravery and honesty are traits to be cherished. And in your example, the app is crap is a true statement. So it still seem to me to be more about in-group/out-group psychology, the workplace's pecking order, and fragile bruised egos than anything else.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#165

Post by radu_floricica »

distracted_boy wrote: post #152
radu_floricica wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's a pretty valuable piece of information.

Why is it valuable if you can practice doing those type of tests and then get a good score on the real test? What's the purpose then? I mean if the job is writing code, wouldn't you be interested in finding out if the interviewee can code, instead of checking if the person can figure how a certain geometric form unfolds?

If it can be cheating on, that's the problem of that particular test. IQ itself is still pretty useful for a programmer. Depending on position and career level, possibly more important than current knowledge.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#166

Post by kthejoker2 »

sascha_sl wrote: post #65
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the hate towards MB. It does what any theory should do: predict behavior. And it does it pretty well, actually. I'm 52. I learned about it when I was 16, and my mother filled in some questionnaire in a computer program, and it nailed my internal thought processing to a T. Ever since, I've paid passive attention to it, and people seem to fit the archetypes pretty well, though I find the category div…

Aside from the link already posted, MBTI testing provides an interesting slight of hand where it abuses nonspecificity. I can read myself into about 3 of the 16 archeotypes pretty easily, and I bet if you read descriptions of adjacent types you can too. The test has to be like that if it aims to categorize humans into just 16 categories anyway. The results, especially on 16personalities, is more about stroking your e…

I think the main challenge with MBTI questioning is less the results (which openly talk about hhow people are on a spectrum between the 16 personalities) but that companies tend to talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to describing their own culture with regards to MBTI-style traits.

You can be data-driven or sentiment-driven, but not both.

You can favor disciplined structure, or you can favor creative chaos, but not both.

You can favor generalists, or specialists, but not both.

You can favor ambition or humility, but not both.

But companies will gladly tell you they have room for diverse personalities, and only after being there a number of weeks, months, or sometimes years, will the untruth of that scenario hit you.

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