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Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#151

Post by recursive »

typon wrote: post #137

Why waste time on something that you will pick up in life anyway with a little common sense? You're not going to randomly pick up Newtonian mechanics or derivatives, but you will learn about taxes from your family/friends.

I really don't think there is some general "common sense" that will teach people about money.

I'm damn near middle aged. Taxes and investment are a mystery to me. I have enough money for it to be relevant. My main problem is probably that I have a distrust of anyone who would want to give me money advice.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#152

Post by tjs8rj »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #80
silverpepsi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're really, really on to something, but just simply that calling it "surviving poverty" will give most people the wrong impression. You've got to convince people that by spending every windfall (and by windfall I literally mean like 20 to 50 extra dollars) to "make up" for the resentment they felt when they couldn't pay their rent on time and got Eviction Notice #1... they've got to SAVE IT or the entire r…

> There are probably 10 guys like him for every person who actually is so broke there is no way out...This is what America's "poor" looks like, it is far more a mental state than concrete reality. No, this is what poverty looks like in the strawman you've built up in your head. I guarantee you the person you describe exists, and is just as you describe - but they're also not representative of American poverty. But th…

Asking in good faith: data to back you up? Just my anecdata, growing up living in apartments with 8 siblings at one point, many friends who grew up in foster homes and trailer parks - maybe 1 or 2 I could recall who were “doing everything right” but still poor, and that seemed primarily because they were on disability and elderly.

The rest? Spent every paycheck, griped about immigrants and how the govt takes too much, bought lottery tickets, tons of toys at Christmas. One couple even lost had his kids taken away by CPS, was told they’d get them back once they could move out of the hotel they were living in and demonstrate they could stick to a budget - they spent their tax refund on a used Mustang.

Perhaps there are plenty of people who save what they can, make smart financial decisions, and STILL struggle in poverty. That’s not the case in my experience, but I’d love to be wrong. The hardest part about escaping may just be having no clue how to, or just plain refusing to implement it.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#153

Post by recursive »

leetcrew wrote: post #120
ysavir wrote: post #105

I have the opposite question: Why is our financial system so complicated it requires such an in depth education just for basic participation?

it's really not that complicated. step 1: accumulate a buffer of 3-6 months expenses in your checking account step 2: a) identify money that you will not need in the near future. b) accept that you will not beat professionals at picking individual stocks. c) use the money to invest broadly in the market. step 3: in preparation for retirement (or a large, time-sensitive purchase), shift allocation to bonds. if steps 2…

I think your simplified steps 2 and 3 might still be too complicated.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#154

Post by anm89 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #70
HenryBemis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Ramsey (not connected in any way - just like his message), can be a bit 'over the top' sometimes, but in his daily radio show you can listen some (financial mismanagement) horror stories. He has a "7 baby steps process" that I believe everyone should know (and adapt to his/her will/preferences/life setup). Yes is a fanatic christian, yes, he can be a bit tiring when he takes a religious tangent, but still, I fin…

There's a really complex/perverse thing here which I'm going to fumble with, so I hope the dear reader forgives. This information is not available to the black community. Now, obviously, any black person is technically capable of tuning into the Fox News channel where Dave Ramsey has a show, or dial their radio to conservative radio stations where Dave Ramsey is broadcast. But in practical terms, Dave Ramsey is unava…

Are you claiming a public YouTube channel is not available to the black community?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#155

Post by dboreham »

Our high school in a small town in the middle of the USA has a personal finance class that is very good. It isn't a "core" class but most students end up taking it due to the need to acquire credits to graduate and the relative lack of other elective classes.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#156

Post by pnutjam »

sokoloff wrote: post #118
aranelsurion wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't trying to explain poverty by referring to two of your friends a massive overprojection? There are indeed times when a problem could be solved on the higher level by managing resources better, if you actually have the hinterland. Yet not all problems are about the superstructure you built on physical realities, and sometimes you simply don't have enough money no matter how you budget, or not enough smart people…

I agree in part, but completely ignoring the management and choice aspects to whatever greatest extent that they are present is also forfeiting one of the best local responses. I think that’s where the Starbucks and avocado toast tropes come from. They’re not 100% right, but they’re surely not 100% wrong either. I work with engineers who are making 6-figures and struggling with money or on course for a poor retiremen…

ok, now tell us how that applies to the family with 3 kids where both parents work and rent is 70% of their income?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#157

Post by GordonS »

schrodinger wrote: post #146
aliassmith wrote: post #43

Every recommendation to add "x" to a school curriculum should state explicitly what alternative activity should be cut to free up time. This could be another subject, sleep or childrens' free time. For example, a better question would be "Why don't we eliminate and teach finance instead?"

I’d argue this could embedded into an existing math curriculum instead. Most people could use this more than an advanced algebra class.

Way back when I was at school, my biggest issue with maths classes was that I never saw the point - like, what would I ever actually do with logarithmic equations in real life? I'd always ask the maths teacher whenever we started a new subject, and even he had no idea. It was all just so theoretical - seemingly pointless.

I found it much more interesting to study things with practical implications, and I also think embedding financial literacy into maths might be a good idea.

I'll add that I did of course eventually find uses for some of the things I was taught in maths class: path finding algorithms for a game AI, neural networks, genetic algorithms, all sorts. But in class, I didn't know any of these uses.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#158

Post by cultus »

op03 wrote: post #40

If you ever teach a group of kids you quickly learn that interests, personality types, needs come in a wide spectrum. Whats in the "core curriculum" and its effects are not predictable. For example, I had French classes for 4 years and can't speak, read or write it to save my life. The teacher wasn't bad and kept telling me, who knows maybe one day I'd move to France. As a kid, I thought the whole thing was ridiculou…

In America at least, foreign languages are taught in high school and college. This really hurts retention of language skills. Humans are far better at language acquisition as small children, but our educational system refuses to take this fact into account.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#159

Post by throwaway316943 »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #133
throwaway316943 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial education could begin at the grade school level and be rolled into math class as a practical application of concepts being taught. That could continue well into algebra 1 & 2. At a high school level you could address more complex aspects of finance as part of history and social sciences. We shouldn’t ever be teaching one subject at the expense of another, they’re all connected.

That is not a good idea. Focus on one topic at a time. Otherwise you will have a half baked understanding of both. It is probably great for Hacker News types who love STEM. For most children, having to simultaneously learn multiple things in class will not be viable.

As someone who did extremely poorly in math at school until I found practical applications of it in programming I can tell you that for a part of the population (probably a large part considering how many other people don’t do well in math) it helps a lot to see how it applies to the real world and it provides more motivation to pursue the topic. Money is something everyone can relate to and it makes a lot of basic mathematical concepts much more concrete. Without looking it up I’d bet a lot of early development in mathematics was motivated by its application to money and management of quantities of goods, why shy away from history that makes the topic more interesting and relatable?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#160

Post by asciimov »

Two things to consider.

1. The purpose of school: To produce a basic worker who wont question authority and to keep a large segment of the population out of trouble for a majority of the working day (babysitting). School hasn't really changed much since the late industrial revolution with the exception that child labor laws mean more kids stay in and complete school.

2. A typical high school student completes 25 year long classes in order to graduate. Those typically include 4 Math, 4 Science, 4 Social Studies, 4 English Language, 2 Foreign Language, 1 Art, 1 PE, 2 General Purpose (Health, Speech, home EC, etc) 4+ Electives (Sports, Band, Shop, Ag)

What are you going to get rid of to open up some time in the kids schedule to teach finance? You can't take away electives, parents and college like to see their kids involved in things.

If we are going to change the curriculum, are there not more important things to our society to teach? A basic medic class, philosophy, ethics?

I think a one year "Life Skills" class should be added. But the question is, what do you teach. I know too many people that didn't have some really basic skills coming to/out of college. Things like cooking basic meals, doing laundry, basic home upkeep (how to clean to basic maintenance), hygiene and self care, budgeting (this is where basic finance could be taught), or how to drive (for those of us in car dependent places).

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