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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#141

Post by neltnerb »

toyg wrote: post #62
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking up their patents ( https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation?page=3... ), looks like their earliest patents are from 1998, so those should be expired already. That said, there's 36 pages of patents that seem related, so I'm sure that newly made e-ink technology will be covered by the newer patents.

It also takes time for manufacturers to design and produce. Even if someone had rushed out of the gate in 2018, they would probably not have ad products ready for a couple of years (and last year there was covid too) - and this with the most basic tech, which we know actually took significant time to be refined. I think a more realistic timeframe for usable eInk patents is 20 years from the first Kindle release, so 2…

If I recall correctly e-ink took almost a decade to work out the very complicated processing required to produce displays with good enough quality control.

It was a really hard problem that required totally different tooling from a normal display manufacturer so I'd absolutely expect that to be a huge source of delays in getting set up.

You can't just convert an existing display factory to make e-ink displays, so the startup costs are huge and the odds are good that you'll take at least a few years to work out the quirks. Probably more like 4-6... if you get lucky and can figure out what tools to use quickly.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#142

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

I own a Remarkable 2 and it is vastly superior to an iPad (which I also own) for many use cases. I would likely pay more for Remarkable 2 than for a full-sized iPad at this point, as the streaming and browsing capabilities are not useful to me anymore (I would use iPhone for all of that).

I’d also like better integrations with alternate cloud storage providers, but this is true for Apple products too.

Combine with the fact you can literally ssh to your Remarkable and write your own apps, it’s a no-brainer.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#143

Post by mottosso »

m-p-3 wrote: post #77
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though?

If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#144

Post by minikites »

reaperducer wrote: post #121
minikites wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less controversial than the r-word, which is why it's a good analogy. People who insist that it's okay to say one usually insist that it's okay to say the other one, because they don't understand the ways words hurt people.

It's less controversial than the r-word I'm not sure that's true. About a decade ago some prominent politician or other official was publicly excoriated for using "niggardly" correctly. I don't think anyone's lost their job for using "retarded" in its academic form.

>I don't think anyone's lost their job for using "retarded" in its academic form.

I could be convinced otherwise, but I believe that's a result of more people knowing not to use it, the same way you don't hear much about people getting fired for saying the actual n-word. "Person gets fired for saying technically correct word" is more 'newsworthy' than "Person gets fired for saying obvious slur".

I did find this, although the person who was fired also made racial comments in addition to saying the r-word: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-candidate-lost-j...

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#145

Post by ohitsdom »

I would have loved to buy something more capable, but instead I settled for this cheap LCD writing display as a mini-whiteboard. I don't even know how to describe this technology but it gets the job done at $20.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QL11LWF

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#146

Post by codethief »

danaos wrote: post #119
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Have you heard of Clearink? [1] They are using a different technology which appears to be superior. One can hope they will be reaching market soon. https://clearinkdisplays.com/

I had never heard of Clearink before but, damn, their tech does look quite impressive[0]! I would LOVE to see a ReMarkable with such a screen!

At @4:08 the company representative says

> Our current schedule is to bring gen-1 productions to the market in 2020

Well, I guess I'll be crossing my fingers that it'll happen as soon as this pandemic over.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjJ2-cdhwMQ

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#147

Post by charlesdaniels »

toyg wrote: post #72

Beyond patent issues, TBH I would not have a problem paying for a reMarkable this very day, if I could be 10000% sure that there wasn't some shitty SaaS service involved in using it at any stage. These days, whenever a new gadget comes up, my first reaction has become "I wonder how they try to screw you into a SaaS later".

I was under the impression that ReMarkable in particular was pretty good about this. I believe they just run a custom Linux variant and you can even ssh into them.

I was really considering getting one, but I think the bigger issue for me is the LiPo battery. You can’t take the thing apart without a heat gun because it’s held together with adhesive, so in a few years when the battery doesn’t hold a charge, you have an expensive paperweight. I would pay a premium for a thicker device that used normal screws so that consumables such as the battery can be replaced easily.

(Many devices these days are similar, so it’s not only ReMarkable doing this.)

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#148

Post by iso8859-1 »

throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Why can't a Chinese company clone their product and kill them?

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#149

Post by Jiocus »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #48
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

The word “idiot” predates the brief medical use for a mentally disabled individual.

Originally an ancient greek insult, suggesting that someone doesn't understand politics. Such was life debating at the agora. At least it was one example given by several teachers on English, Swedish.

Returning to the use in medicine; I imagine the label was used verbatim to mean “lacking comprehension” or “ability”, so also describe a condition.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#150

Post by dorchadas »

Larrikin wrote: post #111
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

My killer use case when I was a student was having a device I could take handwritten notes on, watch class videos on, and read my textbooks on. I then had one single device with a large screen for most of my needs. Trying to read notes on my phone was uncomfortable on the train but perfect on the iPad. The real game changer was when I started taking the iPad to the gym and putting it on the elliptical and could do re…

I do this too with my Kindle. I feel odd, but I usually set a goal for 30 minutes then if I'm halfway through a chapter or something, I'll often just keep going. It's actually been kinda helpful at times, though I don't do it on days I run, only when I walk/do legs.
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