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What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

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Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#971

Post by evan_a_a »

Havoc wrote: post #446

I'm not even a programmer (by profession, though hobby) and I must say I find the gleefulness in the article off-putting. That said I do think it is useful from a societal perspective that programmers are both doing this and getting hit. I'm not going to celebrate someone's job being threatened but in this particular case I think that symmetry is a major societal win for surfacing the question as to how are we collec…

Translator jobs aren't really getting wiped out according to the stats (in the US). Growth is still projected at 2% in the next 10 years.

They also have this to say about AI:

>Computer tools, including artificial intelligence (AI), are making the work of translators and localization specialists more efficient. However, many of these jobs cannot be entirely automated because computers cannot yet produce work comparable to what human translators do in most cases.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/interpreters...

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#972

Post by wnolens »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #814
DeluluDon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to daydream about homelessness until I did it for 6 years. You're surrounded by threats and your limbic system is in overdrive, deindividuation kicks in and takes a year of being rehoused before you're back to being the same person. Those daydreams generally stop after taking a hike or twenty over the weekends.

This is more than a fair response, and I apologize for using the term, because I really daydream about going on an extended backpacking trip with money in the bank, or living in a van and traveling around. Which is significantly different than the normal definition of homelessness.

I did what you dream of. It's fun for 3-6 months. But it's only fun - not an existential cure. That could only be found in friends/loved ones.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#973

Post by andix »

an0malous wrote: post #536
andix wrote: post #418

I have the feeling this goes much deeper than knowledge work and AI. I see it in many places that people seem to not take their job serious anymore. The incentive seems to be gone. Also their managers don't seem to care anymore, as they are also taking their job less seriously. I can't put a finger on it, but it's not about younger people or Gen Z, it also applies to older people. It just feels like good work doesn't…

Yeah something broke during COVID. One factor was the stimulus created enormous wealth inequality, people who owned assets before that live like gods now and people who didn’t can’t even buy a home. The economic policies since then have exacerbated the issue.

I think it started before 2020.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#974

Post by lrvick »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #949
lrvick wrote: post #947

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single new innovation in technology wipes out giant swaths of jobs. The invention of the loom, the printing press, the refrigerator, the radio, automobiles, the internet... etc etc. Technological progress is not evil, and those of us that adapt quickly do not have to apologize to anyone for doing so. Those that learn those technologies early and adapt fast have a major advantage. Those that just want complain a…

You posted about a lot of worldly things when what I was ultimately asking about was "why are you venting about how your friends not taking your advice to quit their jobs?". And your answer is to talk about how disruption is natural and people are screwed if they aren't already living in a place with safety nets? Just to align ourselves here: you responded to the right comment, correct? If you did: well, the answer i…

When I said I advise friends to stop depending on corpotech, I am not telling them to quit their jobs unless they are independently wealthy. I am telling them to quit also using or relying on corpotech in their personal lives, favoring instead FOSS sovereign tech to take back some control, The dream then is hopefully _also_ finding a technology job that also furthers FOSS sovereign tech or otherwise makes the world less shitty.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#975

Post by mixmastamyk »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #936
Kuyawa wrote: post #763

Am I the only one that loves my career more than ever? The one that has seen his productivity explode? Ideas to products in minutes instead of months? Building my own coding agents that help me being even more productive? This is the year I have been the happiest in my 40 year long career as programmer and I feel much more excited for the years ahead of us.

Not being laid off helps with that mentality. I was not so lucky. Owning assets also helps. I was not so lucky.

Agreed, now tell me again how “exciting” that is.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#976

Post by mixmastamyk »

foobiekr wrote: post #617
david927 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1990's

Othr than bubble $, not really. The true "golden time" was the 1980s. Creation of Cisco, Sun and SGI, and so many other things (like the personal computer), all new, incredible energy, mostly positive.

Internet was the new frontier in the 90s, and future so bright, “you gotta wear shades.”

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#977

Post by mixmastamyk »

lrvick wrote: post #198

I am finally able to deliver on years of backlog ideas thanks to the GPUs I racked up in my garage. Having a blast. Everyone I know fully dependent on corpotch seems pretty sad though. I frequently suggest that they stop. It has not worked.

Would like to hear more about your setup. Have a blog or photos? Also re: your sovereign tech mention below, makes me think you might appreciate the trustworthy tech group on zulip: https://trustworthy.technology/

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#978

Post by johnnyanmac »

smolder wrote: post #970
johnnyanmac wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just gotta stay safe and count your blessings. S178 probably did a good part in driving tech to be the canary in the coalmine of the new "forever layoff" model. That was a political decision that affected a lot of us. even if that wasn't, I'm sure you were hit by higher prices for everything We're all being hit, it just depends on a bit of luck and how financially ready we are to buffer the storm. Most people unfortu…

Can you be more specific about what S178 you're referring to? There were several results.

Me using the right number would have helped. My apologies, I meant Section 178, not 174

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/174

As a TLDR it's a way to amortize taxes for R&D over 5 years. High interest rates hit everyone, but this was a sneaky little code that would more specifically hit places like Software.

setup to end in 2022 by the first trump administration, it was one of those "well they'll just renew it, right? And then they... Didn't. So yeah, 2022-2025 made it cost a lot more to hire SWEs than usual.

The only silver lining of the "One Big Beautiful Bill" is that it ended up bringing back S174 for domestic labor. But companies are quick to tear down (and still have half a dozen reasons to tear down) and slow to build back up.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#979

Post by spwa4 »

lumost wrote: post #941
estearum wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised no one has made the extremely obvious observation that it took literal centuries for printing technology to eliminate the trade of printers, which could not have possibly have employed more than 0.01% of people at its peak. Compared to the potential obsolescence of 40% to 60% of the US workforce over the course of 10 - 20 years? You can argue about whether the obsolescence is real or not, but if it is , the…

I think we have unfortunately apt historical comparisons. The economic state of Eastern Europe at the turn of the 20th century matches a society where wealth had been completely and utterly bifurcated. The result was “seizing the means of production”

You mean it was a whole political theory resulting in a revolution "to end class society" who immediately, nearly as a first step created a new elite class, equally impossible to enter and with far bigger wealth inequality than capitalism?

Judging by the reaction in discussions it is a very sore point of socialists to point out that Marx was obviously upper class, definitely part of the bourgeoisie and in his actions shows that he is entirely unwilling to give that up. The same goes for other famous socialists, from Engels to Lenin.

There are even voices that claim the point of socialism was never to end inequality but rather to take far more wealth for themselves. The "halfway to robin hood" jokes, they certainly take from the wealthy, and everybody else, but they never seem to get around to giving it to the poor ...

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#980

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Exoristos wrote: post #903
Exoristos wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of it actually took about five years, as the manufacturing side of it was outsourced to China and the computer side to India. I was there. Management told us it was "because of 9/11." R.R. Donnelley was one of the world's largest manufacturing companies, a Fortune 50 company -- became a penny stock in a decade or so. The technologies GP mentions didn't end commercial print -- they were all heavily in use _by_ co…

Oh and the actual driving mechanism was vulture capitalist takeover.

All technologies are used to change or amplify existing power structures
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