The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
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The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
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Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#2> And let’s not kid ourselves, very very few people are programmers at the level of a Linus Torvalds, Peter Norvig or Fabrice Bellard. Imagine them telling you that you’re hopeless and you’ll never really get it so you might as well give up now.
I think this is a great point that deserves repeating.
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#3Seems to me the article is fighting some kind of giant strawman. I myself haven't experiences this kind of attitude.
I really don't get what the point is, that some people have ego problems and hold pissing contests to see who is the most "awesome programmer"? Well that's a different thing, kind of "who's the best".
Well for sure if you ask people in an office what their job is then I don't think that a banker who creates complex spreadsheets calls himself a programmer per se... Even though he for sure programs a computer.
I would maybe categorize people in two categories, those who enjoy programming for itself (learning different languages and technologies) and those who use it to get some specific task done. This of course has nothing to do with being a "true programmer" :)
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#4Seems to me the article is fighting some kind of giant strawman. I myself haven't experiences this kind of attitude. I really don't get what the point is, that some people have ego problems and hold pissing contests to see who is the most "awesome programmer"? Well that's a different thing, kind of "who's the best". Well for sure if you ask people in an office what their job is then I don't think that a banker who cr…
It's a thing I keep running into over and over again. I'm really happy that you haven't and that for you personally this is not an issue. Unfortunately your sample of '1' may not be representative.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-...
http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/163631/has-no...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5302157
And many many more besides.
I wished it was a strawman, then I could have simply not written the article.
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#5> And let’s not kid ourselves, very very few people are programmers at the level of a Linus Torvalds, Peter Norvig or Fabrice Bellard. Imagine them telling you that you’re hopeless and you’ll never really get it so you might as well give up now. I think this is a great point that deserves repeating.
> very few people are programmers at the level of a Linus Torvalds, Peter Norvig or Fabrice Bellard.
I never really thought of Peter Norvig as a 'programmer' in the sense of Linus Torvalds -- I always lumped Norvig more into the high minded computer scientist camp. It seems like the criteria by which one judges success in the two areas are very different.
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#6Seems to me the article is fighting some kind of giant strawman. I myself haven't experiences this kind of attitude. I really don't get what the point is, that some people have ego problems and hold pissing contests to see who is the most "awesome programmer"? Well that's a different thing, kind of "who's the best". Well for sure if you ask people in an office what their job is then I don't think that a banker who cr…
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Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#7> And let’s not kid ourselves, very very few people are programmers at the level of a Linus Torvalds, Peter Norvig or Fabrice Bellard. Imagine them telling you that you’re hopeless and you’ll never really get it so you might as well give up now. I think this is a great point that deserves repeating.
> very few people are programmers at the level of a Linus Torvalds, Peter Norvig or Fabrice Bellard. I never really thought of Peter Norvig as a 'programmer' in the sense of Linus Torvalds -- I always lumped Norvig more into the high minded computer scientist camp. It seems like the criteria by which one judges success in the two areas are very different.
Read some of Norvigs code and tell me he's not a programmer, his stuff is some of the most elegant and efficient that I've ever seen.
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#8Seems to me the article is fighting some kind of giant strawman. I myself haven't experiences this kind of attitude. I really don't get what the point is, that some people have ego problems and hold pissing contests to see who is the most "awesome programmer"? Well that's a different thing, kind of "who's the best". Well for sure if you ask people in an office what their job is then I don't think that a banker who cr…
It's a thing I keep running into over and over again. I'm really happy that you haven't and that for you personally this is not an issue. Unfortunately your sample of '1' may not be representative. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-... http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/ http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/163631/has-no... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5…
Well I'll add my sample size to make it a sample of 2.
I don't really see people being told they cannot code. I see them being encouraged and encouraged... And they give up.
Because coding longer term often is a Temperament thing. The person learning.has to persevere banging their head against a brick wall ( their own skill, the lack of feedback from computers ) day in and day out.
That's not for everybody.
I am bemused that coding has such a mystique when in reality coding is something akin to metalwork combined with plumbing. Not everyone wants to be a plumber either, but most people could do a reasonable job if given a crash course and some context to use it in
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#9[deleted]
Re: The 'No True Programmer' Fallacy
#10Seems to me the article is fighting some kind of giant strawman. I myself haven't experiences this kind of attitude. I really don't get what the point is, that some people have ego problems and hold pissing contests to see who is the most "awesome programmer"? Well that's a different thing, kind of "who's the best". Well for sure if you ask people in an office what their job is then I don't think that a banker who cr…
It's a thing I keep running into over and over again. I'm really happy that you haven't and that for you personally this is not an issue. Unfortunately your sample of '1' may not be representative. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-... http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-dont-learn-to-code/ http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/163631/has-no... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5…
I'll be your non-strawman.
Consider other fields:
- Is everyone suited to be a mathematician?
- What about a building engineer?
- An electrical engineer?
None of these things are magic. None of these things are something someone can't learn "a little" about.
And yet, like programming, all of these require a great deal of effort to master any degree of proficiency; this 1) takes individual dedication, and 2) is undermined for individuals when they're told repeatedly and incorrectly that being a "programmer" is a label, and that it's easy.