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How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

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Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#2

Post by api »

This isn't just an Apple thing. iCloud was designed for mobile, and one thing I've observed about mobile OSes is that (so far) they treat user data with an indifference that is approaching contempt.

Mobile devices/OSes are for consuming and messaging or accessing remote systems as a glorified ultra-portable dumb terminal. They're not designed for creating or handling/storing important data.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#4

Post by CPLX »

jostmey wrote: post #3

So if I move a folder out of iCloud before the sync finishes every pending file is lost? Did I understand the article correctly?

That seems to be pretty clearly what this article is saying.

And it's a goddamm disaster if that's the case.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#5

Post by Someone1234 »

api wrote: post #2

This isn't just an Apple thing. iCloud was designed for mobile, and one thing I've observed about mobile OSes is that (so far) they treat user data with an indifference that is approaching contempt. Mobile devices/OSes are for consuming and messaging or accessing remote systems as a glorified ultra-portable dumb terminal. They're not designed for creating or handling/storing important data.

> This isn't just an Apple thing.

Who else deletes your files with no ability to roll back? OneDrive allows it[0]. DropBox allows it[1]. Amazon allows it[2]. Google Drive kinda allows it[3].

The rest of your post is built on that faulty assumption ("everyone is just as bad"). I've proven that that is untrue, therefore your whole "but mobile!!!" justification is wrong.

[0] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Delete-or-restore-f...

[1] https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/296

[2] http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...

[3] https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2405957?hl=en

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#7

Post by themeekforgotpw »

Giving your data to a third party is a very difficult thing to do. Either their policies and heuristics are not perfect (like this article), they go under and you lose your data and service (probably not the case now with Apple) or they will be compelled by law to share your data with law enforcement.

On this last issue, Apple has the reputation of being one of the best technology corporations. However according to their legal guidelines (http://images.apple.com/privacy/docs/legal-process-guideline...) they will and do give at least:

    Device Registration (name, address, email address, and telephone numbe, iCloud Apple ID)

    Customer Service Records

    iTunes (name, physical address, email address, and telephone number, purchase/download transactions and connections, update/re-download connections, and iTunes Match connections, iTunes subscriber information and connection logs with IP addresses, specific content purchased or downloaded).

    Apple Retail Store Transactions (cash, credit/debit card, or gift card transactions, type of card, name of the purchaser, email address, date/time of the transaction, amount of the transaction, and store location, receipt number)

    Apple Online Store Purchases (name, shipping address, telephone number, email address, product purchased, purchase amount)

    iTunes Gift Cards (sixteen-digit alphanumeric code, nineteen-digit code, any purchases, name of the store, location, date, and time, user account

    iCloud (music, photos, documents, iCloud email, encryption keys, Subscriber Information, iCloud feature connections, connection logs with IP addresses, Mail Logs, records of incoming and outgoing communications such as time, date, sender email addresses, and recipient email addresses, Email Content, Other iCloud Content, Photo Stream, Docs, Contacts, Calendars, Bookmarks, iOS Device Backups, stored photos, documents, contacts, calendars, bookmarks and iOS device backups, photos and videos in the users’ camera roll, device settings, app data, iMessage, SMS, and MMS messages and voicemail)

    Find My iPhone (including connection logs

    Other Available Device Information (MAC Address for Bluetooth, Ethernet, WiFi, or FireWire)

    Requests for Apple Retail Store Surveillance Videos

    Game Center (Connection logs with IP addresses, specific game(s) played)

    iOS Device Activation (including upgrades the software, IP addresses, ICCID numbers, and other device identifiers)

    Sign-on Logs (iTunes, iCloud, My Apple ID, and Apple Discussions, Connection logs with IP addresses, Sign-on transactional records)

    My Apple ID and iForgot Logs (password reset actions, Connection logs with IP addresses)

    FaceTime (logs when a FaceTime call invitation is initiated, content protected by 15 bits of entropy if secure enclave baked key is obtained from manufacturer)
According to Apple: "Extracting Data from Passcode Locked iOS Devices For all devices running iOS 8.0 and later versions, Apple will not perform iOS data extractions as data extraction tools are no longer effective. The files to be extracted are protected by an encryption key that is tied to the user’s passcode, which Apple does not possess. For iOS devices running iOS versions earlier than iOS 8.0, upon receipt of a valid search warrant issued upon a showing of probable cause, Apple can extract certain categories of active data from passcode locked iOS devices. Specifically, the user generated active files on an iOS device that are contained in Apple’s native apps and for which the data is not encrypted using the passcode (“user generated active files”), can be extracted and provided to law enforcement on external media. Apple can perform this data extraction process on iOS devices running iOS 4 through iOS 7. Please note the only categories of user generated active files that can be provided to law enforcement, pursuant to a valid search warrant, are: SMS, iMessage, MMS, photos, videos, contacts, audio recording, and call history."

But this blurb fails to mention that the user provided passcode can only be about 15 bits of user supplied entropy - the rest is provided by a hardware manufacturer that is also obligated by law to respond to legal request.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#8

Post by reilly3000 »

Happened to me. Besides being an unbelievably irresponsible bug, the core functionality is terrible. I had an important document in my iCloud Drive and needed to send it urgently via email. This isn't possible on an iDevice. There is no file browser, you just have to open the file in the appropriate host app. And if that file type isn't one that can be opened by an iApp you are iFucked.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#9

Post by nickbauman »

jmount wrote: post #6

And iBooks dropped all metadata at some point. The wrong network setting on iTunes nukes all your album art. iCal sync is a cruel joke. The moral is don't use Apple cloud services for anything you care about.

Apple doesn't have the right organizational structure to support cloud services across apps to a level of consistency and quality that Google and Amazon does. Nathan Taylor explains this quite well.

http://praxtime.com/2013/11/03/apple-strat-tax-voice-as-god-...

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#10

Post by endtime »

jmount wrote: post #6

And iBooks dropped all metadata at some point. The wrong network setting on iTunes nukes all your album art. iCal sync is a cruel joke. The moral is don't use Apple cloud services for anything you care about.

iTunes also used to randomly delete music on updates. And they deliberately deleted non-iTunes Store music at one point (which AFAICT was a separate thing).
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