Ask HN: Is Dvorak worth it?

Yes, but not for the reasons normally given.

I switched in college, basically by forcing myself to write all my papers and AIM chats in Dvorak. It was painstaking at first, hunt-and-peck, particularly since I didn't have an actual labeled keyboard (I'd made a printout of the Dvorak layout instead). Took me about 2 weeks to get up to about 30 WPM (I'd been a 90 WPM Qwerty touch-typist before). It was another 6 months or so before I matched my Qwerty speed. Oh, and in the process I forgot how to type in Qwerty; I eventually re-learned it, so I'm now bi-keyboardal, but it was unnerving at the time. I'd say my typing speed now peaks at about 10% faster than it was then, but I'm usually thought-constrained and not typing-constrained.

I'd say it was worth it for a number of non-obvious reasons:

1. The process of switching is very illuminating about how our brain handles subconscious, autonomic tasks - much like how I imagine learning a new language is. I found that about a week and a half in, I had half the keyboard mentally mapped in Qwerty and half mapped in Dvorak, such that I'd often type out unintelligible polyglot sentences. And for several years later, I'd be triggered by whatever was up on the screen: if I had an IDE open, I'd automatically type in Qwerty, while if I had an AIM chat or word processor open it'd be Dvorak. This is useful information whenever you're trying to build a new habit.

2. It's a built-in security device. Even if someone gets ahold of your computer, they probably won't be able to use it.

3. It helps a bunch with RSI. You stay over home row much more with a Dvorak layout, there's much less finger contortion, and so it's correspondingly less strain on your hands. Given how much I use my computer (and how I'm occasionally prone to tendonitis), this has been a godsend.

Your 1 reminds me of shifting leading hands on an instrument. Revisiting from scratch, crippled, is really an illumination. So much was possible without explicit understanding.

2 :)

3 Didn't learning new finger patterns also rewire the way you "handle" position and movement too ?

ps: about switching layouts, I realized that my brain associates layouts to certain machines. Typing in Qwerty on my laptop is easy, in Azerty on my parents machine is easy, but not the other way around. Doesn't help that they're both so close to each other I guess.

I switched due to RSI with the hope it would help - but the difference it made was neglible. Buying a better ergonomic keyboard is far more important than the key layout for coping with RSI. If you're having problems, look for a column staggered keyboard with thumb modifiers.

Typing speed is not really any different from qwerty. Having all the vowels adjacent is sometimes a slowdown because you're utilizing one hand more than the other. I'd probably look at Workman or one of the Q?MLW? layouts if I were to learn again - since they're based on more modern attempts to measurably optimise the layout. The problem with those though, is having them supported by the OS and applications.

Which is perhaps the biggest reason not to bother with Dvorak. It's a PITA to configure most operating systems and the apps you use to have consistent keyboard shortcuts/chords/sequences etc, without having to stretch your hands around the keyboard for operations like cut/copy/paste - which are probably already hard-wired into your neural network. You'll find yourself reconfiguring the controls for any game you play - reconfiguring application's keybindings, if they let you do so easily - and every one of them will have a different means of configuring them anyway.

As for switching between Dvorak and Qwerty, I've never had an issue doing it. I sometimes make a mistake for perhaps the first minute after the context switch, but I can easily type in either layout as good as ever. Perhaps because I still used Qwerty regularly while learning Dvorak and still use it frequently still (can't change keyboard on work computers because people complain, etc).

For the time investment it'll take to learn Dvorak, I'd say it's not worth it. Start by getting a better keyboard (or for pleasure, make your own and adapt it to your hand shape). Play around with some other layouts like Workman and see if they feel comfortable. It should take only a few hours to learn any one layout and you'll forget it pretty quickly if you don't carry it on - so it's not really an issue trying out several layouts to see what you like - then committing to one with spaced repetition or just hard grinding.

Which ergonomic keyboard(s) do you use?

I use colemak - It's incremental to qwerty and is much easier to learn. As such, I'd argue it's better for developers as cut copy paste shortcuts and most punctuation are unchanged. Ubuntu and OSX both come with Colemak now (minus the caps lock to backspace). IMO it's a much more comfortable layout to use without being too terrible to learn. If you want to learn it's because you're interested. I type on crazy blank keyboards etc now - it's pretty gangster but if you're asking here I'd say you shouldn't bother. If you're driven to learn on your own beyond all logic and reason, then I'd personally recommend colemak. The only area that's tough is pairing with other devs but I can type fine on a qwerty as long as I have visual cues (can see the layout of the keyboard.) I can touchtype on qwerty just fine and fast but I'll make a lot of errors without the constant visual reminder of the keyboard infront of me.

My speed dropped from 115wpm to probably 40 - I just checked and it's back up to 80-90 wpm after about 4 years but my hands hurt a lot less because of the reduction in speed.

I'd say you'd get bigger bang for your buck switching to a kinesis advantage but if you THRIVE ON LEARNING than nobody will stop you from picking up a new layout. The keyboard is our fork and spoon. It is the tool of our daily life. Doesn't that make it worth some time, effort and money learning to use better?