Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution

Now, I'm as much of a fan of elaborate, essay-length metaphors as the next guy, but I have to say that I do find it a bit tiresome when the author declines to inform the reader what exactly the metaphor is in reference to.

The author explains that in http://meaningness.com/meaningness-history which is poorly flagged. Examples: hippy, death metal, Twitter, etc.

Edit: http://meaningness.com/modes-chart is also worth pondering.

There's a fair amount of overlap between David Chapman's views and the LW memeplex, though see his response[0] to what he calls "Pop Bayesianism" from a couple years ago. I remember getting a lot out of that essay, maybe even changing my mind a bit.

[0]: http://meaningness.com/metablog/how-to-think

This is brilliant. I wish I had time to write more. A few points.

The time tested old school way to avoid this problem is to limit openness and impose internal structure. The long lasting subcultures of old, namely the ancient mystery schools and the fraternal orders that flourished from the Renaissance until roughly the post-WWII era, were initiatory orders with oaths, degrees, and governing bodies. Sometimes they were secret as well, or at least secretive. Most historians seem to say that this was to avoid political persecution, and that's undoubtedly true, but it was also perhaps a way to avoid the dumbing down and dissipation described here.

I'd adjust the author's dates. It's not 1975 until 2000. It's more accurately roughly 1950 until 2000. The subculture was the engine of cultural creation in the postwar era. It gave us rock, psychedelia, hippies, punks, disco, hip hop, hacker culture, goths, and ravers, and all the immense cultural, musical, technical, and artistic expressions that went with.

My personal sense is that rave was the last postwar subculture. I was there and watched it go through precisely what this author describes. There does not seem to have been another.

I don't think it's just a loss of faith. I personally blame the Internet a bit, especially social media. It's no longer possible for a subculture to stay underground long enough to build up any energy. The entire life cycle now occurs before the first song is over.

Who knows... Maybe we need another occult revival. I'll wear a funny hat and take a blood oath of secrecy if I get to hear really interesting new music that doesn't suck. Sign me up.

Finally, this quote stuck with me.

"A slogan of Rao’s may point the way: Be slightly evil. Or: geeks need to learn and use some of the sociopaths’ tricks. Then geeks can capture more of the value they create (and get better at ejecting true sociopaths)."

That's part of what I like about HN. To the extent that it focuses on helping hackers learn how to "operate" in the business world, it seems like it's helping teach some number of creators how to be just a little bit evil.

Can we have these insights applied to the problem of keeping quality high in an online discussion group? I made rules but the sociopaths and MOPs keep finding ways around them.