An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#1

Post by malabarba » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 5:01 PM UTC

An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp
endlessparentheses.com

Re: An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#2

Post by e40 » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 8:32 PM UTC

So, because RMS doesn't like CL packages we get something that is clearly inferior to CL packages and implemented in a very hacky way (a macro you wrap around all the forms in a given .el file).

Sometimes, when you avoid solutions for political reasons, you end up with something worse for political reasons. Sometimes the world is frustrating.

Re: An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#3

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 8:43 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #2

So, because RMS doesn't like CL packages we get something that is clearly inferior to CL packages and implemented in a very hacky way (a macro you wrap around all the forms in a given .el file). Sometimes, when you avoid solutions for political reasons, you end up with something worse for political reasons. Sometimes the world is frustrating.

Don't be too stiff, having a working hack is a good thing, it helps discussions with concrete examples and usages. Hopefully if things start to move, 'cleaner' solutions will be picked.

Re: An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#4

Post by teddyh » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 8:56 PM UTC

I think I’d prefer it if the symbols to be prefixed with a namespace required a :: instead of having to prefix every external call with ::.

I.e. I would prefer

    (require 'externalpackage)
    (define-namespace thispackage-
    (defvar ::foo "yow")               ; foo is explicitly local, and
                                       ; since it is short, an extra
                                       ; "::" does not make much
                                       ; difference
    (externalpackage-frobnicate ::foo) ; frobnicate is external
    )

to this, which is how the package works currently:

    (require 'externalpackage)
    (define-namespace thispackage-
    (defvar foo "yow")                 ; Some things like defvar
                                       ; magically don’t need ::
    (::externalpackage-frobnicate foo) ; Ugly, and I need to do this
                                       ; for *every* non-local symbol,
                                       ; making them even longer!
    )

Re: An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#5

Post by malabarba » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 10:25 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #4

I think I’d prefer it if the symbols to be prefixed with a namespace required a :: instead of having to prefix every external call with ::. I.e. I would prefer (require 'externalpackage) (define-namespace thispackage- (defvar ::foo "yow") ; foo is explicitly local, and ; since it is short, an extra ; "::" does not make much ; difference (externalpackage-frobnicate ::foo) ; frobnicate is external ) to this, which is h…

No, you don't need to do that for every non non local symbol. You only need to do that for external symbols which are shadowed by a local symbol (which has never happened to me so far).

Re: An introduction to Names: practical namespaces for Emacs-Lisp

#6

Post by malabarba » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 10:28 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #2

So, because RMS doesn't like CL packages we get something that is clearly inferior to CL packages and implemented in a very hacky way (a macro you wrap around all the forms in a given .el file). Sometimes, when you avoid solutions for political reasons, you end up with something worse for political reasons. Sometimes the world is frustrating.

I understand your feelings, but I'm not avoiding anything. :-) I wrote a compliant solution instead of spending my time begging for something else.