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PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

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Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#2

Post by diafygi »

http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us_exp_1101

> On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly available), are no longer subject to the EAR. The amendment includes some minor specific revisions.

Since ProtonMail is javascript crypto, their encryption source code is available and therefore is allowed, right?

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#3

Post by x1798DE »

diafygi wrote: post #2

http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us_exp_1101 > On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly av…

While I am firmly in the "ProtonMail is snake oil" camp, this is obviously a stupid move on PayPal's part (why are people even still using them?). Even if the old idiotic export control laws were in place (they are not, and Paypal should know that, since it uses TLS and doesn't check the physical location of the counterparties before negotiating an encrypted session with them), it's not even clear to me that ProtonMail would be subject to them, since they are based in Switzerland (assuming their technology was developed in Switzerland). Are they even US citizens?

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#5

Post by higherpurpose »

diafygi wrote: post #2

http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us_exp_1101 > On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly av…

Does this look like it has the backing of the law to you? It looks a lot like when Amazon received a phone call to shut down Wikileaks. I imagine the same happened here - just a phone call to the right people inside Paypal.

If the actual law was being involved, we'd see some kind of legal notice at the very least. And even then it would be a BS request that could easily be challenged.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#6

Post by jason_slack »

knodi wrote: post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

I've often wondered this too. It seems to me that more times than not Paypal freezes an account on a "whim". Almost like they are unsure if they would or wouldn't face legal ramifications later so they just freeze it to be safe. People backlash they unfreeze but at the end of the day they have suffered nothing except people being mad at them...

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#7

Post by x1798DE »

knodi wrote: post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

I'd love to see that happen, but I imagine if you read the Terms and Conditions they've got some clause in there that allows them to do this. I wonder if there's anything in there about the duration of the freeze, how long they have until they return the money to its original owners, and whether they have to pay any interest on the money when it's frozen.

I don't really know much about this sort of thing, but I'm guessing that Paypal must be insanely low cost compared to their competitors or something, because I can't imagine anyone deliberately choosing Paypal unless it were really cheap to do so.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#8

Post by DanBC »

x1798DE wrote: post #3
diafygi wrote: post #2

http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us_exp_1101 > On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly av…

While I am firmly in the "ProtonMail is snake oil" camp, this is obviously a stupid move on PayPal's part (why are people even still using them?). Even if the old idiotic export control laws were in place (they are not, and Paypal should know that, since it uses TLS and doesn't check the physical location of the counterparties before negotiating an encrypted session with them), it's not even clear to me that ProtonMa…

See also Paypal blocking anything vaguely connected to Cuba.

I live in England. Let's say I want to go to see something about the Buena Vista Social Club, and that it is held in London. (London, England).

I am not allowed to use PayPal to pay, because Cuba.

People have tried and failed to buy dresses that are called "cuba".

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