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Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

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Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#2
The author underestimates the value of APIs to provide cloud services, and over-estimate the value of client-server architecture for driving user interface.

If anything, the iPhone demonstrates the value of native software, safely run within a jail, delivered and billed immediately, connecting to broader network-based services to provide extensive functionality.

It's short-sighted to approach the future of web applications with such hubris. The web is currently a horrendous application platform, and there's clearly value in client-side state as well as rapid, safe deployment and 'cloud' state.

The future is very likely a merger of web, desktop, and api, but not necessarily using the JavaScript+HTML+CSS or Flash that web developers have come to expect. Perhaps we'll see application architectures like 280 North's Cappuccino take hold, or perhaps not.

Either way, I seriously doubt that today's web application architecture is the final evolution of the client-server model -- we've been engaged in this client/server evolutionary dance for nearly 50 years.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#3
Previously I have been quite heavily invested in the The Desktop App Will Never Die camp. Based on my experiences in the last month from selling, essentially, the same application on the desktop and on the web... I think I owe PG an apology for doubting him.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=503959

There is still a space for users of desktop apps. I know many of my users love the permanence/physicality/"realness" of it. (So much so, in fact, that a third of the ones who use it online pay extra to get a backup of the desktop application on a CD.)

I just am having a hard time making the numbers work for being a developer of them.

I'm in a sort of unique position where I can split test very similar people into the desktop or online versions of my software. I get more clicks on ads for the online version. It is easier to get them to sign up for the online version than it is to download. It is easier to contact them about the online version. It is even fractionally easier to get them to pay for it (!).

I'm sort of obsessive compulsive about tracking support emails. They're running 30:2 in favor of the desktop app since I launched the online version. Sales run 50-50... and that number is starting to heavily favor the online version as I see the higher ROI it gets and promote accordingly.

I was a skeptic. Reality is making me a believer.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#4
This is a stupid debate at this point.

For most applications the line has become darn near invisible at this point. Think about it. In the abstract, what really is the difference between a desktop app running off a database and an Adobe AIR app running off a web service? A seamless install process on the web. A couple of extra APIs on the desktop perhaps. But overall they’re exactly the same.

Moreover, the only reason for any difference at all is that the platform manufacturers haven’t caught up yet. There’s no reason, for example, that an AIR app couldn’t do everything a desktop app could (access hardware devices, run in the background, etc…). Adobe just hasn’t put it all in yet.

So at this point Desktop apps are just a specialized programming environment for those rare situations (utilities, games, hardware centric programs) where web apps don’t work. Otherwise there’s not much difference. So developers should do what they've always done, evaluate their requirements and pick the tool that is best for the job.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#5
I hadn't read the original diatribe, but in this article I finally read it:

The reason most people want to program for the web is that they're not smart enough to do anything else. They don't understand compilers, concurrency, 3D or class inheritance. They haven't got a clue why I'd use an interface or an abstract class. They don't understand: virtual methods, pointers, references, garbage collection, finalizers, pass-by-reference vs. pass-by-value, virtual C++ destructors, or the differences between C# structs and classes. They also know nothing about process. Waterfall? Spiral? Agile? Forget it. They've never seen a requirements document, they've never written a design document, they've never drawn a UML diagram, and they haven't even heard of a sequence diagram.

Now I know I can dismiss this "Michael" fellow as an imbecile. Whatever point he may have, will no doubt be made more cogently some other day, if it's worthy of debate. I'll think about it then.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#7
post #5

I hadn't read the original diatribe, but in this article I finally read it: The reason most people want to program for the web is that they're not smart enough to do anything else. They don't understand compilers, concurrency, 3D or class inheritance. They haven't got a clue why I'd use an interface or an abstract class. They don't understand: virtual methods, pointers, references, garbage collection, finalizers, pas…

As a C# developer the irony for me was that just about everything he mentions is available in a web environment via Silverlight and ASP.NET. So it's odd that this diatribe would come from someone who works for Microsoft.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#8
The web can never replace the power of desktop applications, and desktop applications can never beat the simplicity of web applications (with both in their current forms). We are currently blurring the lines between desktop and and web, but in the end it will probably resemble more of desktop applications. This is because current web applications run in the browser only because of the limitations of current web technologies. But if we could easily make web applications run like native desktop applications (with no installation necessary), we probably would.

Chrome is making that leap to blur the lines by being a web oriented OS. In the future we'll probably see more of using web technologies, and applications that run remotely coupled with easy (but more powerful) UI development on the client side that runs natively on the user's computer. So we'll have a mix between the best parts of desktop applications: control and power, and the best of web apps: easy UI development and interconnectedness.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#9
post #3

Previously I have been quite heavily invested in the The Desktop App Will Never Die camp. Based on my experiences in the last month from selling, essentially, the same application on the desktop and on the web... I think I owe PG an apology for doubting him. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=503959 There is still a space for users of desktop apps. I know many of my users love the permanence/physicality/"realness" o…

There will always be some desktop applications which doesn't make a ton of sense (either logically or financially) to port them to the web.

For most other type of applications, we already have web equivalents (so coyly termed as "the lite version" in some cases).

Javascript may be the most awful language to write code in. But, if there are users (and a way to make money), you'll always find developers willing to write code in JS.

Re: Web vs. Desktop Applications: The Neverending Debate

#10
I recently worked on a web based product that installed a server and a database on the users machine. All data was stored locally for privacy and locality of cpu resources, but could be backed up in the cloud and shared with whomever the user chose. Given this kind of setup the distinction between web and desktop applications completely disappears.

There are obvious scaling and security issues for this model in the general sense: do you want 200 servers and 200 databases on your local machine, but as a browser managed facility it makes sense to me.

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