Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
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Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#2the list he gives is very very short, here is a longer one:
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#3We use Kohana, which is a lightweight php5 port of codeigniter. we like it a lot
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#4A small mistake: this site is writing "Codelgniter" (with L) instead of "CodeIgniter" (with I).
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#5If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision.
This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill.
There are too many unnecessary abstractions from the protocols. The LAMP stack already gives you everything you need. For instance, PHP with mod_php already is a template processor. There's no need to build another one on top of it. Unless you don't know what you're doing, which is bad anyway.
I still prefer to parse the query string myself, to define my SQL queries (and most of the times a single query can replace 4-5 queries generated from a framework so apps are much faster) and to keep the data as clean and separated from the code as I can (data is always much more important than code and it's much better if it is code agnostic).
With web frameworks there's a lot of magic and it's faster to have a web app up and running. But it's a pain as soon as you want to modify the default behaviors. At least in my experience.
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#6If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision. This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill. There are too many unnecessary abstractions from t…
Couldn't agree with you more.
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#7We use Kohana, which is a lightweight php5 port of codeigniter. we like it a lot
I'm currently looking at kohana - I use Zend FW now (been doing a long time without any of the established frameworks, only my own set of tools). Can you elaborate a bit why Kohana instead of Zend? Even if I end up using Kohana, there are several things in Zend I will keep - PDF for example.
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#8If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision. This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill. There are too many unnecessary abstractions from t…
I think you are thinking too small. For most small sites I agree that frameworks are overkill but once you get past that they become nearly essential to maintaining your code.
Running a web app with even over 10KLOC without some sort of framework in place sounds like a receipt for disaster. Also frameworks do not mean you have to have code generate all your queries or stick another templating language over php.
If you've never had to write or maintain a complex web application than I can understand your position but once you do I'm certain you'll change your mind.
Also saying web development is easy compared to other fields shows a lack of understanding of the complexity of large web based applications. I've worked in a number of fields and I now focus on web development and for the most part they were all about the same complexity.
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#9If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision. This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill. There are too many unnecessary abstractions from t…
Couldn't agree with you more.
I couldn´t disagree with you both more.
I´m sorry, but webapps development can be much, much, much harder than desktopapps developement. Take into account a single parameter: scalability.
Note: I expect we are talking about real app programming, and not hobbie programming.
Re: Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?
#10If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision. This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill. There are too many unnecessary abstractions from t…
I think you are thinking too small. For most small sites I agree that frameworks are overkill but once you get past that they become nearly essential to maintaining your code. Running a web app with even over 10KLOC without some sort of framework in place sounds like a receipt for disaster. Also frameworks do not mean you have to have code generate all your queries or stick another templating language over php. If yo…
I totally disagree. And I've made complex web apps since when CGIs in C where the only way to have dynamic generated content.
In fact I think it is the contrary: for small sites (and small budgets) frameworks can be ok. For big websites custom code is a must.
The idea that using a framework makes code easier to maintain is the complete opposite of my experience.
Big (serious) projects require a lot of custom logic which you should write yourself anyway. And it is a lot more painful since you have to stick to the framework logic if you don't want to break things as soon as you update the framework version or if you don't want to make the code unmaintainable.
I have made my own libraries which are designed in a modular fashion (not OO) that I constantly improve and reuse. Code is clean and you can easily understand the flow of each section.
A MVC framework is not the only way to have clean (modular) code.
Your reasoning would apply if you aren't good at designing software architecture, which is a recipe for disaster especially on big projects.