Oracle Killed Java

#1

Post by dmxt » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

Oracle Killed Java
andrew.codeusa.net

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#2

Post by grimlck » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:02 PM UTC

Yet another link-bait title...

It should be 'Oracle killed Java APPLETS'

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#3

Post by jbuzbee » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:03 PM UTC

I tend to agree if we're talking about client-side Java served up through a browser. But client-side Java has been going downhill for years. Server-side Java on the other-hand is alive and well.

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#4

Post by Hermel » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:04 PM UTC

Orcale does not care about the desktop - and Sun never managed to make it user-friendly (e.g. annoying Java Updater popups on every start, trying to install the ask toolbar, etc). However, Java will stay significant on servers and on Android (as Dalvik).

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#5

Post by darklajid » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:08 PM UTC

grimlck wrote: post #2

Yet another link-bait title... It should be 'Oracle killed Java APPLETS'

Given that Oracle now tries to make you install Ask malware (adware? Same thing..) with every "So you want to get security fixes, eh?" updates..

No, the title's totally fine. Oracle sucks balls and killed Java. I'm still having it installed (interested in Clojure, for example), but I actively make sure that people around me Do Not Use It.

Java as a platform on the desktop was killed by the company that is

a) unable to advance the language and platform, to make it 'state of the art' again (right now, it's ... old-fashioned and limited, if you're looking at competing platforms)

b) actively trying to get malware on your machine because .. why not, you're already installing stuff from those clever people, maybe another browser toolbar would be totally fine?

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#6

Post by JetSpiegel » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:09 PM UTC

Can't believe the author mistook 'effected' with 'affected'. Never had seen that happening in the wild.

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#7

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:11 PM UTC

Oracle's got nothing to do with the failure of the Java applet sandbox. The problem with the applet sandbox is simple: it was designed before anybody really understood modern secure C programming --- integer handling, memory lifecycle, concurrency.

The major browser projects all host a very similar attack surface --- a programming language with content/attacker- controlled code hooked up to a whole bunch of crazy bells and whistles. The browsers barely, just barely, have a handle on that attack surface. And the modern browsers have all rearchitected in the last 5 years specifically to address the problem, which is something the Java applet maintainers have not done. Who in the world is surprised that doubling the browser attack surface creates problems?

It's long past time we put Java applets out to pasture.

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#8

Post by betterunix » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:15 PM UTC

Java applets were dead before Oracle acquired Sun. Too heavy, too slow, and by the time they stopped being too slow it was too late.

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#9

Post by RyanZAG » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:17 PM UTC

"While this is great in theory, for java its pointless. The contents of a jar can be extracted just the same as any zip format, signatures removed and resigned all without any issue."

Completely false? Resigning a jar with authenticated signature will turn it into a self-signed jar and will then display the nasty warning as it should. This security measure works very well: if you want to run stuff in the browser, use js+HTML5 (or GWT). If you have legacy java code that you must run in the browser, get it signed properly and it will run. This is universally an incredibly good thing given how flakey java applets are.

Re: Oracle Killed Java

#10

Post by synchronise » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 11:28 PM UTC

Would it be a possibility of having a 3rd party Java app registrar which isn't Oracle, using OpenJDK?

Because $300 a year is a little steep, the open source community could do this much more efficiently.