Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I won't be using Google in January

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 13 posts

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#2

Post by minimaxir »

Instead of taking a look into their OWN issues- they knock Rap Genius off the front page.

cough cough did someone say censorship?

What?

RG cheated. RG was punished for cheating. If everyone cheats, the system breaks and that's bad for everyone.

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#4

Post by minimaxir »

[deleted] wrote: post #3
minimaxir wrote: post #2

Instead of taking a look into their OWN issues- they knock Rap Genius off the front page. cough cough did someone say censorship? What? RG cheated. RG was punished for cheating. If everyone cheats, the system breaks and that's bad for everyone.

[deleted]

RG's link manipulation was definitely malicious, as it gave it an unfair advantage over other lyric websites (whether or not the other lyric websites were also cheating is irrelevant)

Exploiting a broken system is not inherently justifiable. Two wrongs don't make a right.

"Cheating would be paying people." Indeed, as RG gave them payment with promotion (a Tweet).

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#5

Post by zoltar92 »

minimaxir wrote: post #4
[deleted] wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

RG's link manipulation was definitely malicious, as it gave it an unfair advantage over other lyric websites (whether or not the other lyric websites were also cheating is irrelevant) Exploiting a broken system is not inherently justifiable. Two wrongs don't make a right. "Cheating would be paying people." Indeed, as RG gave them payment with promotion (a Tweet).

You're focusing soley on the rules, not the reasons for them. The rules are in place to make the most relevant results appear at the top. If RG was optimizing everyones search results for everyone- how can that be "bad". Again, it's a super beaucratic way of looking at it-- whereas I'd say the "tech" way is looking at the bigger picture. And not punishing for punishments sake.

P.s. They said they would be retweeting only stuff they were interested/supported... Not just blanketly.

P.s.s. Down-voting a comment you don't agree with, but still adds something useful to the discussion-- yada yada, seems like censhorship too ;)

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#6

Post by lingben »

Everyone is free to use whatever search engine they wish to use. Google isn't forcing you to use them.

That being said, Google has pretty clear guidelines about what it will accept and what will result in a penalty. RG knowingly broke google's rules. They got penalized. That simple.

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#7

Post by wiwillia »

zoltar92 wrote: post #5
minimaxir wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RG's link manipulation was definitely malicious, as it gave it an unfair advantage over other lyric websites (whether or not the other lyric websites were also cheating is irrelevant) Exploiting a broken system is not inherently justifiable. Two wrongs don't make a right. "Cheating would be paying people." Indeed, as RG gave them payment with promotion (a Tweet).

You're focusing soley on the rules, not the reasons for them. The rules are in place to make the most relevant results appear at the top. If RG was optimizing everyones search results for everyone- how can that be "bad". Again, it's a super beaucratic way of looking at it-- whereas I'd say the "tech" way is looking at the bigger picture. And not punishing for punishments sake. P.s. They said they would be retweeting…

Come on man, this whole thread/article is pretty ridiculous.

I'm a fan of RapGenius as well, but the whole underlying theory of Google is that the more people that organically link to something, the more valuable that content will be for someone searching key terms. You and I don't define what's "optimal" for everyone's search results, that's supposed to happen organically via legitimate link sharing (and it's the reason Google has grown to be the leading search engine, and that all major search engines now use similar logic).

To say that Google is doing something wrong for enforcing it's rules about organic links, just because you (or I) believe the results are more valuable, does not make that true for everyone.

Who do you expect to police this? Who is going to say what sites are breaking the rules for the sake of "optimizing everyones search results" and which ones are breaking them to optimize their revenue/valuation?

I'm a big fan of RapGenius, and I'll continue to use their service, but this was a shady SEO technique that backfired on them and I believe they know that. They'll be penalized for a week or two, remove the shady links, then have the penalty removed and be fine. I hope that other lyrics sites that are engaging in similar behavior get punished as well so we can try to maintain the quality of search.

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#8

Post by wiwillia »

zoltar92 wrote: post #5
minimaxir wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RG's link manipulation was definitely malicious, as it gave it an unfair advantage over other lyric websites (whether or not the other lyric websites were also cheating is irrelevant) Exploiting a broken system is not inherently justifiable. Two wrongs don't make a right. "Cheating would be paying people." Indeed, as RG gave them payment with promotion (a Tweet).

You're focusing soley on the rules, not the reasons for them. The rules are in place to make the most relevant results appear at the top. If RG was optimizing everyones search results for everyone- how can that be "bad". Again, it's a super beaucratic way of looking at it-- whereas I'd say the "tech" way is looking at the bigger picture. And not punishing for punishments sake. P.s. They said they would be retweeting…

Also re: your P.s., it doesn't matter if they were only retweeting blogs they interested in or supported. They were asking people to add links (for SEO) that had zero relation to the article, in exchange for a tweet (which they wanted the blogger to write for them).

Does this interview about YOG$ have any relation to Justin Beiber? http://hiphophundred.com/yog-explains-his-new-mixtape-everyd....

Again - I'm a huge fan of RapGenius, and I think their superior quality will bring them to the top again in no time (look at their growth over time, they are clearing winning on quality already), but there's zero question that this was a terrible move. You can't fault Google for this.

Re: Why I won't be using Google in January

#9

Post by zoltar92 »

wiwillia wrote: post #8
zoltar92 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're focusing soley on the rules, not the reasons for them. The rules are in place to make the most relevant results appear at the top. If RG was optimizing everyones search results for everyone- how can that be "bad". Again, it's a super beaucratic way of looking at it-- whereas I'd say the "tech" way is looking at the bigger picture. And not punishing for punishments sake. P.s. They said they would be retweeting…

Also re: your P.s., it doesn't matter if they were only retweeting blogs they interested in or supported. They were asking people to add links (for SEO) that had zero relation to the article, in exchange for a tweet (which they wanted the blogger to write for them). Does this interview about YOG$ have any relation to Justin Beiber? http://hiphophundred.com/yog-explains-his-new-mixtape-everyd... . Again - I'm a huge f…

I agree... to an extent. But does blacklisting them help get more relevant search results?

Seems like the best scenario would be ignoring the extra links... My point is that, yes, Rap Genius did something wrong. But a punishment like this is equally as wrong- And it's Google showing the world that they run like a bureaucracy not a "start-up"* which I feel is how they portray themselves.

*I obviously KNOW Google's not a start-up, but i'm saying the pretend/try act like one. Ex: Should be caring more about accurate/relevant Search results for lyrics rather than if some tech start-up gamed their system. If they want to crack down on shady SEO tactics there are plenty of other places to start that result in LESS relevant results.

Post reply on HN