How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
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How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
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Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#2This is why I think more people should expose themselves to hardware design, CPU design, and compiler writing, if only at an abstract/academic level. I've worked with a lot of entry-level programmers, and even some that were not so entry-level, that wouldn't have a clue how to answer this question, which is quite depressing.
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#3If he thinks that's weird, then he ought to read Ken Thompson's article about trusting compilers.
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#4This is why I think more people should expose themselves to hardware design, CPU design, and compiler writing, if only at an abstract/academic level. I've worked with a lot of entry-level programmers, and even some that were not so entry-level, that wouldn't have a clue how to answer this question, which is quite depressing.
I'm not a programmer at all, and I found this answer quite obvious. Where else does new binary software come from, if not from a computer running older software?
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#5If he thinks that's weird, then he ought to read Ken Thompson's article about trusting compilers. http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
A somewhat related albeit primarily entertaining idea is that behind the Quine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_(computing)
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#6> How can the linux kernel compile itself?
Short answer: it can't. Each software system relies for its own existence on a predecessor, usually one of smaller scope. Sort of like biology and evolution.
When I wrote Apple Writer in 1978, there were no high-level development tools available, just a primitive assembler built into the Apple II BIOS. By making direct hand entries, I used the BIOS assembler to write a better, faster assembler that supported alphabetic labels. Then I used that assembler to write a better one, and eventually I had a development tool suitable for writing applications.
Linux development has relied on a similar bootstrap process, on a larger scale.
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#7This is why I think more people should expose themselves to hardware design, CPU design, and compiler writing, if only at an abstract/academic level. I've worked with a lot of entry-level programmers, and even some that were not so entry-level, that wouldn't have a clue how to answer this question, which is quite depressing.
I'm not a programmer at all, and I found this answer quite obvious. Where else does new binary software come from, if not from a computer running older software?
It shouldn't be such a mystery, because it follows a biological model -- small, simple organisms produce more complex descendants by way of natural selection, all fueled by proteins. The same process creates complex software systems out of simple predecessors, all fueled by coffee.
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#8If he thinks that's weird, then he ought to read Ken Thompson's article about trusting compilers. http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
While I love the story, it's really amusing to watch how it gets re-discovered on HN every few years, blows everyone's minds, and then gets quoted all over the place, even where it is only mildly relevant. This might be our "does glass flow" meme.
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#9Link to Ken Thompson, link to Quines and that one dude who always goes 'When I wrote Apple Writer...' - all in the first few comments.. thread complete?
Re: How can the Linux kernel compile itself?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not a programmer at all, and I found this answer quite obvious. Where else does new binary software come from, if not from a computer running older software?
It shouldn't be such a mystery, because it follows a biological model -- small, simple organisms produce more complex descendants by way of natural selection, all fueled by proteins. The same process creates complex software systems out of simple predecessors, all fueled by coffee.
The biological model also explains why people can get confused about it.
The chicken or egg problem shows that at some point you lose the connection to the predecessor and the process goes around in endless circles.
Then you might wonder how it ever came to be when the first thing depends on the second and the second depends on the first.