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Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

pcmag.com

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Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#2

Post by mtgx »

> "With that said, do you really want to buy a Microsoft product? Do you want to buy anything that gives easy access to snoops poking around at their leisure? If you'd think twice about this, then why would a foreign government rely on Microsoft Office with any confidence? Personally, if I were any foreign government or corporation, I'd stop using all Microsoft products immediately for fear of America spying on me. Nothing can be secret."

That's exactly what I'm hoping will happen. It may be the only way to actually roll back most of this shameless and abusive mass spying of everything and everyone. I'm not sure what else would stop it. Americans protesting it? I'm not holding my breath for that one, and even if they do, they'll only try to fix the spying internally, as they couldn't care less what they do to the world as long as the government keeps telling them "it's to keep them safe" (which obviously trumps everyone else' rights).

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#3

Post by acqq »

This is a financial disaster waiting to happen. Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA.

Apple, on the other hand, could have come out smelling like a rose, but following the death of Steve Jobs, who apparently refused to play ball with the NSA, it stupidly jumped on board to join the PRISM club.

According to the Prism slides, it really looks so:

   "Dates when Prism collection began for each provider

   Microsoft 9/11/07
   Yahoo 3/12/08
   Google 1/14/09
   Facebook 6/3/09
   PalTalk  12/07/09
   YouTube 9/24/10
   Skype 2/6/11
   AOL 3/31/11
   Apple (added Oct 2012)"
Steve Jobs: February 24, 1955 – October 5, 2011.

If it's true, it's one reason more to deeply admire him.

And can you just imagine how much more sales Apple would get now for not being on that list?

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#4

Post by polarix »

"Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA"

No John, unfortunately it is not really an option to move 57,000 employees and a headquarters out of the United States. That is what would need to be done. None of the people making statements for these large corporations are lying voluntarily.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#5

Post by mtgx »

acqq wrote: post #3

This is a financial disaster waiting to happen. Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA. Apple, on the other hand, could have come out smelling like a rose, but following the death of Steve Jobs, who apparently refused to play ball with the NSA, it stupidly jumped on board to join the PRISM club. According to the Prism slides, it really looks so: "Dates when Prism collection…

That reminds me of Putin a little bit. Even if you think some leader is an asshole, sometimes you need an asshole to stand up to an even bigger bully. I just imagine someone like former president Medvedev (and with no Putin in sight) would've offered Snowden to US government on a silver platter, just like France, Spain, Portugal and Italy tried to do (fortunately unsuccessfully). I remember I was very much against Putin when he fought the US' anti-rocket shield, but over the past few years I've started to understand why he would do that. No country should own the whole world.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#6

Post by ygra »

polarix wrote: post #4

"Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA" No John, unfortunately it is not really an option to move 57,000 employees and a headquarters out of the United States. That is what would need to be done. None of the people making statements for these large corporations are lying voluntarily.

I wonder how much pressure the NSA can and does exert on corporations that refuse to coöperate in this manner. And whether those on the list really had an actual choice in that manner. I guess a large government organisation has plenty of leverage if need be.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#7

Post by mikevm »

Dvorak's article is a regurgitation of previous HN discussions on this topic.

I have said in the previous HN post and I will say it again here: don't pile on Microsoft alone. These spying policies make every US-based services company untrustworthy to whomever privacy is important. Come to think of it, I'm not sure whether you can rely on European services either because it seems that gov't surveillance is widespread.

On the other hand, maybe if we do pile on Microsoft, and stop using their products for this reason alone (even though Google, Apple and others are in the same boat), it will force them and their lobbyists to influence their gov't shills to put a stop to these programs.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#9

Post by LinaLauneBaer »

A couple of years ago at a Linux conference in Germany I had a discussion with a Microsoft employee at their booth. At that time I was a 'hardcore' linux user with no trust in Microsoft at all. The discussion with the employee went like this:

  Me: "Hello. Could you tell me what Microsoft is doing at this Linux conference? I honestly want to know that."
  Him: "We are here to show how our products can work well together with Linux related products."
  Me: "Why would I as a Linux user use Windows or any other product from you? We all know that you spy on me - at least indirectly."
  Him: "Oh no. You are misinformed. We have a lot of business customers with very sensitive data. Can you imagine what would happen to us if they found out that we spy on them? Business users are very sensitive in that area. We were screwed. And we do not spy on regular users as well. You may also know that this would be totally illegal according to German law."
  Me: "So you are saying that you do not spy on businesses or other kind of users of your products?"
  Him: "Yes! We were screwed otherwise!" *giggle*
He had a smile on his face for the whole discussion. Maybe because he had this discussion with those paranoid Linux users for the last couple of days of the conference. Paranoid!

Microsoft is so screwed guys.

Edit: I was not rude to this guy. We had a beer together later that day. I am sure he did not know anything about PRISM and was just doing his job.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#10

Post by yuhong »

mikevm wrote: post #7

Dvorak's article is a regurgitation of previous HN discussions on this topic. I have said in the previous HN post and I will say it again here: don't pile on Microsoft alone. These spying policies make every US-based services company untrustworthy to whomever privacy is important. Come to think of it, I'm not sure whether you can rely on European services either because it seems that gov't surveillance is widespread.…

Yea, remember that PRISM is designed to target foreign communications, so if you are an American, you might be actually safer.
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