Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#1

Post by anonny » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 2:06 AM UTC

So I recently graduated from college and joined Google in NYC. I considered going the startup route, but instead chose to apply to big companies based on my short-term financial goals and the rationale that once I paid off my (small) student loan debt, I can go on and join or start a startup without sacrificing financial stability in the short term. Besides, the work lines up wonderfully with my studies and skillset.

Since I've joined, I've noticed people seem to have a particular... attitude towards Google employees. Many of my friends went to work at startups, and they've become somewhat chilly. I've learned to avoid bringing up my employer's name at certain meetups because I've noticed people being visibly turned off by me when I mention it.

What I'd like to know is: why? As someone with little experience in this market, I'm a little uncertain as to what might cause such a reaction.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#2

Post by slater » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 2:50 AM UTC

First, congrats on getting the job :)

I'd think it's probably a mix of envy (we all know Google pays well, offers great perks and benefits, looks good on a CV, etc.), and maybe fear - Google controls/funnels so much of how people interact with the web today, as a start-up you have to a) stay in their good graces and b) hope they don't come in to your start-up's space and stomp on you.

Oh, and hope - to be bought by Google if your start-up's product is compelling enough ;)

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#3

Post by googoobaby » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 2:59 AM UTC

Maybe it's the contrast between the superhuman pretensions and the base exploitation of their users (as distinct from their customers)?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#4

Post by benologist » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 3:03 AM UTC

A few things come to mind, but mostly related to Google 'today' not being the little underdog it was 15 years ago when it started, it's a giant corporation.

You are probably employee #sixdigits counting everyone who's no longer employed and #50000-and-something for current employees and that just isn't as prestigious even if their standards haven't changed.

They make a lot of unpopular decisions - most things with google plus, no more free google apps with your own domain, significantly changing app engine pricing, reader and the long list of other dead services that collectively spell "be careful" even to their most vocal fans - the tech industry who made god knows how many millions pandering to Google and Google fans openly mocked Keep's launch!

To counter that they offer perks and they work on some really cool stuff and they still have a reputation for hiring smart people ... but all of that is normal for any startup today.

I would guess (but don't know) that a similar transition happened for HP, IBM, Oracle, Sun, Microsoft, PayPal, eBay etc as well when they finished puberty. I would be somewhere between indifferent and disappointed if one of my friends settled for a job at any of those companies.

It's great if it's your dream though.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#5

Post by lubujackson » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 3:26 AM UTC

A bunch of reasons, some valid and some not.

In the 90s, people felt exactly this way about Microsoft. Part of it is simply market strength and longevity. Like the Yankees, people just get tired of always seeing and hearing about Google.

A lot of people have issues with Google's business policies. Very little human support, even for paying customers. Websites that rely on Google's traffic both fear and are frustrated by Google's (unintentional) power over their business, and this includes many startups.

Some people are unhappy with Google's recent moves, including a lot of former employees. The new focus on Google+ and sunsetting of several products has alienated some people who are concerned about Google's identity and goals.

Lastly, some people feel that Google's employees tend to be either arrogant or naive. It's important to realize that people have developed these strong feelings over many years by interacting with Google's products, so when employees assume that Google is great and "would never do anything to hurt small companies" or something like that, it angers people who feel like they have personally experienced just that.

I certainly don't believe most of these concerns are valid or judged by the same standards any other company would have, but that is the nature of being a for-profit company so central to the workings of the Internet.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#6

Post by 27182818284 » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 3:33 AM UTC

I would contest the feelings about Google are shifting from "AWESEOME!" to "Ugh, is there anything else around?" because Google has stopped innovating in its day-to-day software production. There are driverless cars, but those are just TV-News-OMG things—they aren't coming to me soon. At the same time in the day-to-day you have everyone from Paul Graham to Alie Ward (a celebrity TV chef) complaining about the new Gmail compose. That's a huge diversity! One writes about lisp and created YC, the other cooks and uses Twitter and they both agree on had bad it is. Not a good sign, right? You'd be right to argue that's just one example, but scratch the surface with a search and you see people most recently angry about Google Reader and before that a plethora of other products.

The bottom line is, people have fallen out of love with Google because Google is no longer different. They're on the path to becoming a new Microsoft. (Heck, they basically had a freebie with something as neat as Google Glass and they even fucked that up. Just wow. Let's award it to Newt Gingrich and the guy who joked about cutting himself with it. Good job Google. Good job. )

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#7

Post by anonny » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 3:55 AM UTC

benologist wrote: post #4

A few things come to mind, but mostly related to Google 'today' not being the little underdog it was 15 years ago when it started, it's a giant corporation. You are probably employee #sixdigits counting everyone who's no longer employed and #50000-and-something for current employees and that just isn't as prestigious even if their standards haven't changed. They make a lot of unpopular decisions - most things with go…

> I would be somewhere between indifferent and disappointed if one of my friends settled for a job at any of those companies.

I think this is emblematic of what I'm encountering: Joining Google is "settling." When I was in college, Google was at its peak, and I was very attracted to Google both because of the amazing work it did and the deep technical challenges it solved.

What I'm concerned with today is that, due to whatever cause, Google fatigue is needlessly costing me friends and respect. I don't think of myself as a Google employee, I see myself as an educated, capable engineer who happens to work for Google at the moment. I have actually received disrespect in social settings for this. Why do people take PR missteps and apply them to me as a professional?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#8

Post by anonny » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 4:09 AM UTC

27182818284 wrote: post #6

I would contest the feelings about Google are shifting from "AWESEOME!" to "Ugh, is there anything else around?" because Google has stopped innovating in its day-to-day software production. There are driverless cars, but those are just TV-News-OMG things—they aren't coming to me soon. At the same time in the day-to-day you have everyone from Paul Graham to Alie Ward (a celebrity TV chef) complaining about the new Gma…

> The bottom line is, people have fallen out of love with Google because Google is no longer different.

By "people" do you mean the absolute height of the technological elite? The startup-founding, meetup-attending, venture capital funding-acquiring geniuses that apparently make the tech world go round? In that case, yes, Google is no longer the darling of the tech world, but rather just another large, profitable business with a solid bottom line and a horde of (presumably gullible) employees. To them, my working there is a sign that I'm too risk-averse and boring to ever be successful in their little patch of the knowledge economy.

But to the people who matter most, i.e. the people who interact with the mass of products Google puts out, the company is still quite positive. I find it difficult to believe that such intelligent people as the technorati are willing to lose faith in any company that does meaningful work that positively impacts massive amounts of people.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely trying to understand this. Is it the search for novelty? Is it the loss of connection to some ideal? Is it just part of a company growing up?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#9

Post by benologist » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 4:12 AM UTC

anonny wrote: post #7

benologist wrote: post #4

A few things come to mind, but mostly related to Google 'today' not being the little underdog it was 15 years ago when it started, it's a giant corporation. You are probably employee #sixdigits counting everyone who's no longer employed and #50000-and-something for current employees and that just isn't as prestigious even if their standards haven't changed. They make a lot of unpopular decisions - most things with go…

> I would be somewhere between indifferent and disappointed if one of my friends settled for a job at any of those companies. I think this is emblematic of what I'm encountering: Joining Google is "settling." When I was in college, Google was at its peak, and I was very attracted to Google both because of the amazing work it did and the deep technical challenges it solved. What I'm concerned with today is that, due t…

There's nothing "wrong" with working at Google and you can bet every friend of yours joining or starting a startup secretly hopes your employer bails their asses out when their seed money expires.

While google makes very public, very loud decisions that people dislike you're going to be held accountable for it. Their decisions impact 100,000,000s of people, the ones you know are going to bust your balls for it.

Anyone who literally doesn't want to be your friend because you work at Google is a douche.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Google Hate?

#10

Post by 27182818284 » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 4:50 AM UTC

anonny wrote: post #8

27182818284 wrote: post #6

I would contest the feelings about Google are shifting from "AWESEOME!" to "Ugh, is there anything else around?" because Google has stopped innovating in its day-to-day software production. There are driverless cars, but those are just TV-News-OMG things—they aren't coming to me soon. At the same time in the day-to-day you have everyone from Paul Graham to Alie Ward (a celebrity TV chef) complaining about the new Gma…

> The bottom line is, people have fallen out of love with Google because Google is no longer different. By "people" do you mean the absolute height of the technological elite? The startup-founding, meetup-attending, venture capital funding-acquiring geniuses that apparently make the tech world go round? In that case, yes, Google is no longer the darling of the tech world, but rather just another large, profitable bus…

>By "people" do you mean the absolute height of the technological elite?

No not at all! Actually, I'd say those that I respect for their technical ability still respect Google the most, but even their attitudes are less positive than they were.

I'm not saying anyone is burning-down-buildings mad, but that they are keeping their eyes open for other things. That's all. Even the non-technical. Especially the non-technical.

> Is it the search for novelty?

I'm not sure. My gut is to say "No." to that because it doesn't seem like people are currently craving novelty, but rather bored with Google for doing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yet_another way of doing something they already have installed. Be it Google Keep in the Play store or Google Offers copying Groupon years ago.