Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
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Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#2Or because having kids is much more limiting for women than it is for men...
It's almost like no one here has actually talked to women in their 20s and early 30s. While cost does play a role, almost every guy (and it's always guys) seems to ignore polling amongst women [0] that highlights this shift.
Women face the physical effects of childbirth and the subsequent recovery (if they recover), as well as stalled careers and the continued existence of patriarchical norms. Unsurprisingly, the younger generation of women are much less interested compared to men, because now they have a choice.
[0] - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/reasons...
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#3Trying to ascribe causality on macro/global level when the interesting tidbits are certainly on the regionalized scale seems mostly useless, although somewhat there is irony in again a man writing about why he thinks women having less kids than just going around and getting actual data points that aren't capture by societal level statistics.
I think the undeniable trend is caused by economics especially in the western world. It's more expensive to live than ever, and kids are very expensive when you factor in cost of living and lifestyle adjustments.
This sort of essay is farcical in ascribing economic stability as "status" - which of course has a negative connotation of seeking status, but suppose thats on track for a man writing an essay about this. Women( and men) need to work now because single incomes are not enough, and women biologically have larger burden in child rearing regardless. Economic incentives for child rearing are a joke, much like most policy that ends up more as a panacea than a solution - because none of it targets the other huge correlation we see, the growing level of inequality of wealth where the top n% is accumulating more and more. One need not look at number of lawsuits regarding women getting fired or laid off from work for needing/taking maternal leave. In the US you often need to be tenured for a year to qualify for it. These are all economic issues at it's core, and the tautology to it being status seeking is an damaging one in and of itsef.
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#4Or because having kids is much more limiting for women than it is for men... It's almost like no one here has actually talked to women in their 20s and early 30s. While cost does play a role, almost every guy (and it's always guys) seems to ignore polling amongst women [0] that highlights this shift. Women face the physical effects of childbirth and the subsequent recovery (if they recover), as well as stalled career…
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status. I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#5Or because having kids is much more limiting for women than it is for men... It's almost like no one here has actually talked to women in their 20s and early 30s. While cost does play a role, almost every guy (and it's always guys) seems to ignore polling amongst women [0] that highlights this shift. Women face the physical effects of childbirth and the subsequent recovery (if they recover), as well as stalled career…
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status . I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
It's not about status dude.
Gestating and expulsing a living human being is very difficult to physically and mentally recover from.
All we as guys need to do is put our shlong in. Women have to deal with the physical and mental externalities of that, so unsurprisingly a lot of young women are increasingly uninterested in having kids even if status played a role (which it doesn't as polling amongst women points out).
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#6Or because having kids is much more limiting for women than it is for men... It's almost like no one here has actually talked to women in their 20s and early 30s. While cost does play a role, almost every guy (and it's always guys) seems to ignore polling amongst women [0] that highlights this shift. Women face the physical effects of childbirth and the subsequent recovery (if they recover), as well as stalled career…
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status . I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
Better status is misleading label for "I will have more time for myself and things I like, for own dreams and hopes, I will be able to be more independent" and "my life wont be completely ruled by others needs with no reward" and so on.
Status is only loosely related to what those people want. It just just one of many aspects.
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status . I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
It's not about status dude. Gestating and expulsing a living human being is very difficult to physically and mentally recover from. All we as guys need to do is put our shlong in. Women have to deal with the physical and mental externalities of that, so unsurprisingly a lot of young women are increasingly uninterested in having kids even if status played a role (which it doesn't as polling amongst women points out).
[deleted]
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status . I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
Better status is misleading label for "I will have more time for myself and things I like, for own dreams and hopes, I will be able to be more independent" and "my life wont be completely ruled by others needs with no reward" and so on. Status is only loosely related to what those people want. It just just one of many aspects.
Indeed, women are affirming their desire for agency, autonomy, and self determination vs a decade or two of uncompensated labor. Women have chosen freedom, reflected in global fertility rate decline curves, and we’re still discovering what the neutral fertility rate is under these circumstances. It appears to be around a TFR of 1 (+-0.5), but still early days in the demographic compression to say what the next decade or two looks like.
The Fertility Rate of Every Country in the World - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/fertility-rate-of-world-pop... - May 17th, 2026
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yah, but isn't this the same that the post is saying? The younger generation of women are much less interested because now they have a choice that procures them a better status . I hope it's clear that there is no moral judgement in this- it's perfectly legitimate, actually expected behaviour.
Better status is misleading label for "I will have more time for myself and things I like, for own dreams and hopes, I will be able to be more independent" and "my life wont be completely ruled by others needs with no reward" and so on. Status is only loosely related to what those people want. It just just one of many aspects.
This is also true. But let me also add to this: time for yourself and what you like, for your dreams and hopes... that depends on what your dreams and hopes are, and what you think are valuable goals to pursue, and ultimately your idea of a worthy life. These are cultural values, not absolutes. And when your society agrees that cool people attain these goals, then pursuing them becomes also a form of status. In other words, the coolest guy at a party is not the one with a family home, a stable job and four kids; it's the childless bachelor with a super interesting life.
Re: Fertility is collapsing because motherhood is zero-status
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Better status is misleading label for "I will have more time for myself and things I like, for own dreams and hopes, I will be able to be more independent" and "my life wont be completely ruled by others needs with no reward" and so on. Status is only loosely related to what those people want. It just just one of many aspects.
This is also true. But let me also add to this: time for yourself and what you like, for your dreams and hopes... that depends on what your dreams and hopes are, and what you think are valuable goals to pursue, and ultimately your idea of a worthy life. These are cultural values, not absolutes. And when your society agrees that cool people attain these goals, then pursuing them becomes also a form of status. In other…
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