The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
malisper.me
The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
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Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#2If you understand Postgres's problems so well (though in reality, such problems can occur in many applications, and it's unclear how your rewritten version attempts to solve them), then why not address them in the main branch by becoming a contributor.
Less code and more value.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#3If you understand Postgres's problems so well (though in reality, such problems can occur in many applications, and it's unclear how your rewritten version attempts to solve them), then why not address them in the main branch by becoming a contributor. Less code and more value.
It is explained in the article: Any of those changes require massive or incompatible changes.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#4If you understand Postgres's problems so well (though in reality, such problems can occur in many applications, and it's unclear how your rewritten version attempts to solve them), then why not address them in the main branch by becoming a contributor. Less code and more value.
It is explained in the article: Any of those changes require massive or incompatible changes.
So they want 100% compatibility first and then implement features that require massive and incompatible changes?
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#5If you understand Postgres's problems so well (though in reality, such problems can occur in many applications, and it's unclear how your rewritten version attempts to solve them), then why not address them in the main branch by becoming a contributor. Less code and more value.
It is explained in the article: Any of those changes require massive or incompatible changes.
No, this note is another declaration without exact explanation. If you have real bugs you should send a bug report, that's all.
Maybe you should start from bug report without LLM-slop?
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is explained in the article: Any of those changes require massive or incompatible changes.
So they want 100% compatibility first and then implement features that require massive and incompatible changes?
Checks out, pgrust is mainly an LLM driven rewrite with minimum supervision and guided by 100% test suite conformance.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#7If you understand Postgres's problems so well (though in reality, such problems can occur in many applications, and it's unclear how your rewritten version attempts to solve them), then why not address them in the main branch by becoming a contributor. Less code and more value.
I think the issue isn’t a lack of want for fixing these issues, but the inertia and friction of getting them fixed.
The issues around the transaction ids and process per connection are well known, but the changes to the codebase to fix them would either constitute a backwards incompatible change that would change storage needs or an incredibly large rewrite of the codebase that breaks with decades of assumptions.
The json issue is a lot less of a problem as that’s net new. But some of these changes have been debated for years with no movement (and no lack of willing developers to tackle it) and at some point a fork or rewrite like this will happen. In my mind, all LLMs have done is made this work easier to do. If you have reservations about LLM’s doing this kind of work, no one is forcing you to use it, and I think it shows the utility of LLMs in that these kinds of things now can exist.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#8This article states multiple times that spinning up a process is expensive/very expensive. Is that really true? I ask out of ignorance.
“Compared to other ways of doing parallelism, processes are very expensive, both in terms of taking CPU resources but also the amount of time it takes to spin up a new process.”
“Because it’s expensive to spin up new processes, Postgres will only do this for long-running queries.”
Also:
“There’s been years of people talking about switching Postgres from a process model to a threading model, but nothing concrete has come out of that.”
I’ve read several times that on Linux, the cost between a process and a thread is relatively small.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#9This article states multiple times that spinning up a process is expensive/very expensive. Is that really true? I ask out of ignorance. “Compared to other ways of doing parallelism, processes are very expensive, both in terms of taking CPU resources but also the amount of time it takes to spin up a new process.” “Because it’s expensive to spin up new processes, Postgres will only do this for long-running queries.” Al…
A process is significantly more expensive than a thread on a Linux system. The main cost is memory. Processes own their memory which forces the system to duplicate resources, as opposed to threads that are able to share resources.
Where have you red that "the cost between a process and a thread is relatively small."? I would be curious to see a link because the most cursory internet search would show you that it is not true.
Re: The four horsemen behind Postgres outages
#10This article states multiple times that spinning up a process is expensive/very expensive. Is that really true? I ask out of ignorance. “Compared to other ways of doing parallelism, processes are very expensive, both in terms of taking CPU resources but also the amount of time it takes to spin up a new process.” “Because it’s expensive to spin up new processes, Postgres will only do this for long-running queries.” Al…
It’s all relative. It’s cheap if you think about spinning up new processes to run one off commands. It gets very expensive when you have to spawn it hundreds of times per second, and it can waste cpu cycles that could be used for query processing instead.