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ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

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Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#4

Post by moffkalast »

If there's really such a bottleneck around ASML, why not design some extra chips for legacy processes that presumably already have well known design workflows?

I mean we're not talking AMD FX and Core 2 Duo here, it's Raptor Lake and Zen 3, it's perfectly viable and still being sold in droves right now.

Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#6

Post by irdc »

moffkalast wrote: post #4

If there's really such a bottleneck around ASML, why not design some extra chips for legacy processes that presumably already have well known design workflows? I mean we're not talking AMD FX and Core 2 Duo here, it's Raptor Lake and Zen 3, it's perfectly viable and still being sold in droves right now.

That’s what the likes of AMD with their chiplet design have been doing.

There’s also the issue of older process nodes not being profitable enough anymore, which explaines why at the height of the chip supply crunch older ARM chips were in short supply but there was ample stock of the 20nm feature-sized RP2040.

Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#7

Post by jasode »

maxalbarello wrote: post #2

For anyone interested in the topic I highly recommend this Veritasium video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0

The Veritasium video is good but their "newscast" style with constant back-and-forth cuts to talking heads can make the presentation a bit disjointed.

The more straightforward video of ASML EUV is from Branch Education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2482h_TNwg

Because that vid gives an overview of the whole machine, it gives context to what each scientist is talking about in the Veritasium interviews.

Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#8

Post by bob1029 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #5

They might be the most complex mass-produced commercial machines but the Large Hadron Collider has a plausible claim to the title of "world's most complex machine" https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/103591-la...

I think something like this wins that category:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Interconnection

Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#9

Post by ForHackernews »

bob1029 wrote: post #8
ForHackernews wrote: post #5

They might be the most complex mass-produced commercial machines but the Large Hadron Collider has a plausible claim to the title of "world's most complex machine" https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/103591-la...

I think something like this wins that category: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Interconnection

I suppose it's partly a semantic question that hinges on what you count as a single "machine" and what's a system or a network.

Re: ASML became the chokepoint for cutting-edge chips

#10

Post by moffkalast »

irdc wrote: post #6
moffkalast wrote: post #4

If there's really such a bottleneck around ASML, why not design some extra chips for legacy processes that presumably already have well known design workflows? I mean we're not talking AMD FX and Core 2 Duo here, it's Raptor Lake and Zen 3, it's perfectly viable and still being sold in droves right now.

That’s what the likes of AMD with their chiplet design have been doing. There’s also the issue of older process nodes not being profitable enough anymore, which explaines why at the height of the chip supply crunch older ARM chips were in short supply but there was ample stock of the 20nm feature-sized RP2040.

This is gonna sound super dumb, but I'm not sure how they aren't being profitable if there are shortages, just price things beyond break even level? The average person can't even tell the difference between a Core 5 and a Core 5 Ultra, you can practically sell them at the same price and I'm not even sure they'd notice when actually using them. The performance jump is relatively minor and the bottlenecks are elsewhere.
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