Why I left iNaturalist
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Why I left iNaturalist
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Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#2> They insisted the app needed to be simpler, to cater first to incidental users who wanted a quick answer, to be a friction-less path to a feeling of contribution. I don’t believe that’s possible while also serving existing users who value (don’t laugh) the power and nuance of iNat, including, among many other things, the way it doesn’t give you a quick answer, forcing you to consider options when making an identification.
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> iNaturalist the product is fundamentally complicated, and I have watched many, many people bounce off that wall of complexity over the years, even as I’ve seen so many people enrich their lives after they climb over it.
Oof, as someone working on consumer facing creative software, I feel that.
There is some sort of higher calling to making tools that truly teach things to people, augments their mental models and knowledge of the world, taps into their curiosity and creativity - but demands some sort of effort in return.
All those aspirations are kind of "dirty words", as they go against the currently accepted playbook of software that's as "frictionless" and "intuitive" as possible - the goal being a viral product with the potential to gather 10 million users overnight, which requires superficial, immediate results, and not really asking anything from your users unless it fits in a single screen/single tap flow.
Especially relevant in the current context of generative AI, where I've heard some argue that actually expecting people to build skill or knowledge is akin to discrimination, and anyone should be able to generate a novel without knowing how to write, a song without knowing how to compose, a painting without knowing how to draw.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#3iNaturalist ranks right up there with Wikipedia in importance.
It is more than one organisation, but rather a central org + a network of regional organisations. The regional organisation provides a lot of biological technical expertise. Citizen scientists alone would not be able to correctly handle the complex taxonomic issues you have in biology… or even basic identification in many cases.
Where the organisation(s) sometimes go awry, in my personal opinion, is forgetting they are the custodian of citizen science data, not the source of it.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#4> They insisted the app needed to be simpler, to cater first to incidental users who wanted a quick answer, to be a friction-less path to a feeling of contribution. I don’t believe that’s possible while also serving existing users who value (don’t laugh) the power and nuance of iNat, including, among many other things, the way it doesn’t give you a quick answer, forcing you to consider options when making an identifi…
Like so many others, I've gotten into birding in the last few years. I've known so many people who choose eBird over iNaturalist because it's "easier to use". But that's exactly why I don't really enjoy eBird. So many people are just running Merlin, and dumping whatever it picks up to eBird.
There are way fewer observations on iNaturalist, but I know how much to trust every one of them.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#5If you don’t like the way your data is used to train AI models, you can’t currently move your data to a non-AI service while still contributing to and using iNat data, even if such a service existed. But you should be able to do that.
100x yes! I was disgusted to learn that while the very non-profit status iNaturalist enjoys demands that they share their output, the organization thinks keeping its models secret is legitimate. https://github.com/inaturalist/inatVisionAPI No, it isn't. I am a big contributor to iNaturalist and will be sharing my concerns at the next local meeting. I tried to raise the question through the forums and was censored.
Frankly, it seems to me that iNaturalist is to open science as Android is to open source. That is to say in name only, not in spirit, because "legalese" and "market position" and "lack of enforcement". Not surprised to learn Google's money is assisting with corrupting them.
If you contribute to iNaturalist, COMPLAIN. If you want to start a class action, count me in.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#6iNaturalist ranks right up there with Wikipedia in importance. It is more than one organisation, but rather a central org + a network of regional organisations. The regional organisation provides a lot of biological technical expertise. Citizen scientists alone would not be able to correctly handle the complex taxonomic issues you have in biology… or even basic identification in many cases. Where the organisation(s)…
Having never used iNaturalist, but as someone who believes that Wikipedia might be one of the most important knowledge resources created in the last 100 years, I'd love to hear more about why you think this.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#7If you don’t like the way your data is used to train AI models, you can’t currently move your data to a non-AI service while still contributing to and using iNat data, even if such a service existed. But you should be able to do that. 100x yes! I was disgusted to learn that while the very non-profit status iNaturalist enjoys demands that they share their output, the organization thinks keeping its models secret is le…
Do you have a copy of what you posted that was censored? I assume you mean censored on the iNat forum.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#8iNaturalist ranks right up there with Wikipedia in importance. It is more than one organisation, but rather a central org + a network of regional organisations. The regional organisation provides a lot of biological technical expertise. Citizen scientists alone would not be able to correctly handle the complex taxonomic issues you have in biology… or even basic identification in many cases. Where the organisation(s)…
Having never used iNaturalist, but as someone who believes that Wikipedia might be one of the most important knowledge resources created in the last 100 years, I'd love to hear more about why you think this.
It’s a living biodiversity record. That kind of data has had an impact on things like: understanding human impact on the macro environment, ID new species, provide scientists with more accurate population distributions etc. Perhaps controversial, but the data has also been critical to computer science, specifically computer vision and AI algorithms. eg what’s the bird in this picture?
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#9If you don’t like the way your data is used to train AI models, you can’t currently move your data to a non-AI service while still contributing to and using iNat data, even if such a service existed. But you should be able to do that. 100x yes! I was disgusted to learn that while the very non-profit status iNaturalist enjoys demands that they share their output, the organization thinks keeping its models secret is le…
Do you have a copy of what you posted that was censored? I assume you mean censored on the iNat forum.
Yes, I do. ~Sept 2025.
Subject: iNaturalist must commit to being open
Platform(s), such as mobile, website, API, other: All
URLs (aka web addresses) of any pages, if relevant: https://github.com/inaturalist/inatVisionAPI
Description of need:
iNaturalist makes a subset of its machine learning models publicly available while keeping full species classification models private due to “intellectual property considerations and organizational policy”.
The community contribute far too much time, data, expertise and money to tolerate this, which opens questions about fundamental compatibility with science.
Feature request details:
iNaturalist should:
Remove non-open data; and Commit to fully open output…within a fixed period of time, in order to maintain community support.
Response was "Hi, this seems to be a general appeal to iNaturalist staff rather than a specific feature on the website or app that would be developed, so I’ve copied the text of your request here, where they can see it."
No response was received, so I responded to the thread as follows.
Disappointed to be effectively censored and then receive literally zero response to this after three calendar weeks.
With regards to the US status of iNaturalist:
Scientific 501(c)(3) Nonprofits are organized primarily to conduct scientific research in the public interest. Their research must benefit the general public, not specific individuals or commercial enterprises.
IMHO it’s very hard to argue that something is in the public interest if the public can’t see it, hold it, analyze it, criticize it, and replicate it: particularly in the field of science where we have a replication crisis.
If it’s a black-box service, it’s not science.
If it’s replicable and open, thus provable, it’s science.
iNaturalist should commit to fully open output…within a fixed period of time, in order to maintain community support. Otherwise, it risks community pushback on its consume-but-dont-give model, which is being sheltered under a false heading of “science”.
No response was received. Then sent a final follow-up.
Please be advised due to the lack of response I will be forced to publish my concerns in conventional botanical media.
To date, no response has been received. I am looking at that option for this year.
Re: Why I left iNaturalist
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have a copy of what you posted that was censored? I assume you mean censored on the iNat forum.
Yes, I do. ~Sept 2025. Subject: iNaturalist must commit to being open Platform(s), such as mobile, website, API, other: All URLs (aka web addresses) of any pages, if relevant: https://github.com/inaturalist/inatVisionAPI Description of need: iNaturalist makes a subset of its machine learning models publicly available while keeping full species classification models private due to “intellectual property considerations…
Can you explain what you mean by censored? For example if this was on the forum was the post deleted? If this was a bug filed, was the bug closed or deleted?