Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
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Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#2This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet.
If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#3This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
There is one constant to all these conversations and that is Silicon Valley tech dudes are grossly misinformed about the lifecycle of things. Solar panels don't wear out, batteries don't wear out as fast as they used to. This is evidenced both by undertaking weird dead-end startup ideas, and being susceptible to propaganda about the supposed downsides of solar energy and batteries.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#4This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
So, basically the same reason recycling of PV modules hasn't taken off.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#5This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
From TFA:
David Roberts
When did automotive batteries become the majority of your input by volume?
Colin Campbell
That is a good question.
David Roberts
Was it recent or was that early on?
Colin Campbell
I would say the transition to EV batteries dominating what we received, it’s been in the last year or 18 months.
David Roberts
So the front edge of a very large wave of batteries has begun to arrive?
Colin Campbell
Yeah, the wave is out there, it’s coming. The waters have finally started to arrive at the beach here.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#6This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
From TFA: David Roberts When did automotive batteries become the majority of your input by volume? Colin Campbell That is a good question. David Roberts Was it recent or was that early on? Colin Campbell I would say the transition to EV batteries dominating what we received, it’s been in the last year or 18 months. David Roberts So the front edge of a very large wave of batteries has begun to arrive? Colin Campbell Y…
Reading between the lines of the corporate speak will validate my point. Redwood was founded in 2017.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#7This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
From TFA: David Roberts When did automotive batteries become the majority of your input by volume? Colin Campbell That is a good question. David Roberts Was it recent or was that early on? Colin Campbell I would say the transition to EV batteries dominating what we received, it’s been in the last year or 18 months. David Roberts So the front edge of a very large wave of batteries has begun to arrive? Colin Campbell Y…
He's just talking his book. Their deployment this year was 1/4000th share of the BESS market.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#8This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
A lot of the early EV battery life projections were based on Nissan Leaf Gen 1. Which had a horrendous battery pack that combined poor choice of chemistry, aggressive usage and a complete lack of active cooling.
When EVs with good battery pack engineering started hitting the streets, they outperformed those early projections by a lot. And by now, it's getting clear that battery pack isn't as much of a concern - with some of the better designs, like in early Teslas, losing about 5-15% of their capacity over a decade of use.
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#9Without being a battery chemistry expert, why do these battery packs become not useful for an EV yet could still be useful for energy storage. They keep saying that 80% of life becomes unusable for EV, but that's still a lot of life. Is it that grid energy is more of a constant drain while the EV is lots of hard pulls (for lack of better wording)? In an EV, the battery cannot provide the higher volts being requested within rating, but a grid is never demanding peak performance?
Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?
#10This is less useful than most people expected. Redwood has been struggling because the expected battery turnover is not occurring. EV batteries are lasting a long time, so they stay in the car are and not being recycled or reused in any quantity yet. If EV batteries last 20+ years in EV's, it'll be > 2040 before there are significant numbers of EV batteries available to recycle or reuse. https://www.geotab.com/blog/e…
We are only 5-6 years into the car ev market. Tesla model 3 started being sold in 2018 in meaningful numbers