3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
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3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
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Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#2It's not "public data". Illustrating example: people can and do make different offers on Craigslist than they do in other channels.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#33taps will file an antitrust countersuit, alleging that Craigslist maintains a [monopolistic control] over numerous markets related to online classified advertising. If successful, 3taps could open up the market to numerous innovations atop Craigslist data and bring about the user interface and search features, whose lacking seem to be exemplified by the popularity of sites such as PadMapper
-- Anti trust is an interesting angle.
The Irony is that newspapers (the competition) were all reliant on classified ads, which have been decimated by craigslist. As it is, Craigslist is just a good competitor with a more efficient system and better pricing. There are other choices, just at different pricepoints. Its not clear this is a winning formula.
It will be interesting to see if there are other angles of attack -- such as fair use -- which would also allow re-purposing of data posted to quasi-public internet places, that hold non-exclusive rights on said information.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#4It's not "public data". Illustrating example: people can and do make different offers on Craigslist than they do in other channels.
That doesn't mean there is copyright protection for doing so.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#5The more Sherman Act claims that are brought against web incumbents, the sooner one is going to stick.
The CL blog stinks of entitlement.
Craigslist "stole" the classifieds business from local newspapers. Now they are accusing others of trying to "steal" the "CL idea" from them.
I am one of (probably) the few who actually prefer a CL type interface. But the way CL is behaving in the face of competition is just embarassing. If someone wants to reshape the data, then you have to let them. The data is not the property of CL. If users do not want their data on some other site, then that's their issue to raise, not CL's.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#6The more Sherman Act claims that are brought against web incumbents, the sooner one is going to stick. The CL blog stinks of entitlement. Craigslist "stole" the classifieds business from local newspapers. Now they are accusing others of trying to "steal" the "CL idea" from them. I am one of (probably) the few who actually prefer a CL type interface. But the way CL is behaving in the face of competition is just embara…
Craigslist has never sued anyone for reimplementing their 'idea'.
Craigslist didn't 'steal' the classifieds business, I recall no point in time which I could find the classifieds in my news paper copied verbatim onto craigslist.
Craigslist offered a solution which was superior to newspapers and built a business around it.
As to who holds copyright on the data that's a question for the courts that is currently undecided, if it was cut and dried as to who held copyright on the the data then summary judgement would have already been filed.
I don't think craigslist holds exclusive copyright on the data so in my mind they may lack standing as whether 3taps is allowed to use the data becomes an issue between 3taps and millions of other users, perhaps a class action suit is more appropriate.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#73taps will file an antitrust countersuit, alleging that Craigslist maintains a [monopolistic control] over numerous markets related to online classified advertising. If successful, 3taps could open up the market to numerous innovations atop Craigslist data and bring about the user interface and search features, whose lacking seem to be exemplified by the popularity of sites such as PadMapper -- Anti trust is an inter…
Sigh, antitrust is a dead end. It might have been possible to argue prior restraint if Craigslist had stuck with their silly 'we own this' clause but they didn't.
My guess is that any judge would say "Can anyone else make a classifieds site?" and "Does Craigslist interfere with anyone on their site using a different site?". Since the answer will be 'No' and 'No' thus they don't have a monopoly.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#8It's not "public data". Illustrating example: people can and do make different offers on Craigslist than they do in other channels.
Thing is, factual data itself, such as "Someone is offering to the public to sell X for $Y," is not subject to copyright. Copyright-eligible works must include some element of creativity, however small. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural)
So the text of a classified ad itself is indeed copyrightable, but the mere fact that a house at 123 Some Avenue is for rent for $1,000 per month is not. Having learned of that fact from a copyrighted work, and in the absence of an NDA or something similar, you are free to disseminate that fact as you like.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#9It's not "public data". Illustrating example: people can and do make different offers on Craigslist than they do in other channels.
Thing is, factual data itself, such as "Someone is offering to the public to sell X for $Y," is not subject to copyright. Copyright-eligible works must include some element of creativity, however small. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural ) So the text of a classified ad itself is indeed copyrightable, but the mere fact that a house at 123 Some Avenue is for rent for $1,000 per month is not. Having learned…
Oh, I like this idea....
Neural net for CL postings, extract the facts, reformat for your own display...
Re: 3taps vs. Craigslist -- Who owns public data?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thing is, factual data itself, such as "Someone is offering to the public to sell X for $Y," is not subject to copyright. Copyright-eligible works must include some element of creativity, however small. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural ) So the text of a classified ad itself is indeed copyrightable, but the mere fact that a house at 123 Some Avenue is for rent for $1,000 per month is not. Having learned…
Oh, I like this idea.... Neural net for CL postings, extract the facts, reformat for your own display...
The key trick is the fact seperation. The information is in the public domain. So, you have to be a "reporter" rather than a "republisher" if that makes sense. The raw data may or may not be subject to certain considerations, the the only really valuable part -- the fact/information -- is more or less urestricted.
The question is, will CL now take steps to make the data more "private" (eg, member only, even if free...etc) or will they take steps to re-introduce themselves into a critical step of actionable use (must login for contact details, etc). CL could start to look like an apartment broker, though, if they follow through with this latter approach.
So this is an interesting dynamic to watch how it plays out. It might aso still be interesting to use a-padmapper-like-service, even as a complement to CL service. If I just had to get 1-5 things its no problem. But sorting 200-400? to find 5 is a PITA, because wading CL is increasingly inneficient. Its a discovery issue.