IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
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IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
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Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#2The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at times and riding on their coat tails.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#3From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that...
Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#4The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…
Did not the same thing occur prior where most cellphones had terrible menu based systems? If you shake up an industry with a superior interface, and users get comfortable with it, there is no reasonable argument that continuing with an older standard would be a wise business decision.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#5From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that... Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.
It seems like the lawyer may have fucked up, or it may be some brilliant Perry Mason-eque trap. But if the latter, why fight the memo's introduction into evidence in the first place? So I'd guess it was a mistake.
Anyway, the memo by itself doesn't damn Samsung, but in context with, oh, the radius of curvature of every corner of key products being changed to exactly match Apple's devices, the color and arrangement of icons, the color and choice of materials, and the design of packaging all matching -- it seems pretty damning.
Yesterday we had the internal memo revealing that most returns of the Galaxy Tab were literally caused by customers mistaking it for an iPad.
Burger King for a long time had a strategy of building new restaurants near newly built Macdonalds because it knew how much effort its rival put into researching locations. This seems kind of unethical, but apparently is perfectly legal competition. Samsung builds its restaurants near Macdonalds, copies the menu, erects a golden M over the entrance, and serves takeout in white bags.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#6The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…
I think that happens in any industry where the rules of the game change. The competitors then have to adapt after the winning design/product if the consumers want it and they want to stay relevant. Some level of similarity should be permitted because of that, otherwise you would have either very little competition or none at all.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#7The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…
Did not the same thing occur prior where most cellphones had terrible menu based systems? If you shake up an industry with a superior interface, and users get comfortable with it, there is no reasonable argument that continuing with an older standard would be a wise business decision.
True. But it's what you do when faced with this predicament that counts. Compare the approach of Samsung versus Microsoft.
Samsung pretty clearly took the iPhone and decided to make their own equivalent. It's an approach they've used (with great success) when competing with Sony. Unlucky for them Apple patented their work every step of the way.
Microsoft however went back to the drawing board, looked at how users were actually using the iPhone, went through their own product development process and built something unquestionably unique.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#8The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…
Did not the same thing occur prior where most cellphones had terrible menu based systems? If you shake up an industry with a superior interface, and users get comfortable with it, there is no reasonable argument that continuing with an older standard would be a wise business decision.
Sure, you wouldn't want to continue with an older standard at that point, but I don't think that is the argument.
If I've seen one consistent thing from Apple product design, it's that they appear to iterate continuously on the hardware and software/UI/IX components until they feel they have reached the absolute best (and before a wrong-tangent thread starts, that doesn't mean it is THE best, just Apple's opinion of best, etc.)
Most likely in the course of designing the iPhone/iPad, Apple threw away countless hardware and software designs that would have frankly been great and significant game changers. So I would imagine their view is along the lines of "We know the iPhone isn't the only conceivable marketable smartphone layout."
I personally believe that Samsung, or some other smart company, could have come up with an iPhone competitor that would not be so closely compared to and confused with the iPhone. Especially when you consider that the iPhone was groundbreaking in the sense of not having a physical keyboard. That was certainly not perceived as the "perfect" solution at the time, and probably still isn't. There was room for innovative differentiation in how user input was handled (physical keyboard, Palm grafitti-style input, chording keyboard, something new).
Instead Samsung (and several other companies) immediately switched to the flat all-glass iPhone design with the same basic rows of squared icons.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#9From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that... Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.
I don't think that this is intended as a smoking gun, it's one part of a picture Apple want to build up - that Samsung were highly aware of the iPhone, were actively assessing it's design in comparison to their products, and that this path ultimately lead to them copying significant elements.
In that context I think it's damaging to Samsung as it's hard to say it doesn't show a little part of that picture, but obviously Apple will need a lot more to make the whole argument.
The implication is that the lawyer fucked up - that the memo was out of scope until he referenced it at which point the judge considered it fair game - but it's not 100% clear.
Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did not the same thing occur prior where most cellphones had terrible menu based systems? If you shake up an industry with a superior interface, and users get comfortable with it, there is no reasonable argument that continuing with an older standard would be a wise business decision.
True. But it's what you do when faced with this predicament that counts. Compare the approach of Samsung versus Microsoft. Samsung pretty clearly took the iPhone and decided to make their own equivalent. It's an approach they've used (with great success) when competing with Sony. Unlucky for them Apple patented their work every step of the way. Microsoft however went back to the drawing board, looked at how users wer…
This is exactly what I'm trying to say when it comes to the discussing "Samsung had to copy the iPhone cause it is the defacto standard". It is not. Nothing should be a standard. Apple didn't copy Nokia even if Nokia was the defacto standard and the bestelling phone maker. It is not okay to just copy products and earn a fortune with it. I genuinely believe that Apple invested millions of dollars into the UX of the iOS platform and letting people just copy it would be a shame and just the wrong thing.
Why can't Samsung just come up with it's own ideas? Why was there no S-Voice before Siri? Why is the Galaxy line pretty much the only Android Smartphone with a home button? Why do Samsung product packages (!!) look nearly the same as Apple?
Even if people like Samsung or hate Apple they have to admit that something fishy is going on here.