Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
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Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
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Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#2The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#3The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
It requires such a depth of evolution as to make it absurd to imagine that the genus homo is the point at which altruism emerged. Animals care about each other.
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#4The next time my wife asks me why we have something new, my response will be "Because in a capitalistic society, you can exchange money for ____."
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#5The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
“Group selection” is not a thing. The article hand waves this always with
> some biologists still get really triggered about group selection and deny its evolutionary importance
Which is dishonest at best. The vast majority of biologist have realized group selection doesn’t work as proposed. [0]
What people thought was group selection was just kin selection working over time.
All evolution works at the level of the gene. Genes “want” to reproduce more of themselves. And if the same gene is in a kin, then it can favor enhancing the survival of kin that carry copies of itself. At a macro level this can be misreported as group selection, but to be sure, the selection is happening at the level of the gene, and reaches at most to kin sharing genes.
The article then goes on to say
> The nice story I told above about the evolution of altruism could just have easily been applied to humans. Yet we do not exist in eusocial colonies, so there must be something else going on
And he then talks about gene selection and the fact that bees are haplodiploidy, which is indeed the cause of the “altruism” we see.
His dismissal of haplodiploidy at the end of the article is a weak argument. Just because haplodiploidy in other species doesn’t lead to eusocial groups, or that eusocial groups can occur without haplodiploidy are not sufficient arguments that dismiss the effects of haplodiploidy and kin selection favoring altruism in eusocial bees.
I highly recommend people interested in these topics to read the seminal Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. [1]
0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_selection#Criticism
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#6> the result is the picture at the top of this article
But there is no picture at the top of the article, at least on mobile.
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#7The next time my wife asks me why we have something new, my response will be "Because in a capitalistic society, you can exchange money for ____."
Money can be exchanged for goods and services
- Homer Simpson's brain
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#8The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
Think about how most people are naturally scared of heights, or snakes. A lot of dogs get freaked out by snakes too, or if you play with a hair clip in front of them, which looks like a snake.
The ones that aren't afraid of those things are more likely to die from falling off a cliff or being injected with venom.
I'm personally someone who is freaked out heavily by insects. I know logically a house centipede or a harmless spider can't hurt me, but seemingly my brain has something in it that overrides my entire body when I see one and disgusts me. Usually it's irrational, but it probably helps humanity on a larger scale to avoid the ones that are dangerous!
There's a lot about the humans body that naturally gives us non-logical instincts that help us to survive and breed. People like having sex, regardless of whether they want a baby. There's no logic to it, but we know what we like!
The more advanced we get, the more it becomes apparent that we're just monkeys in shoes.
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#9The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
group selection works a lot better when the sacrificing individuals are sterile, with no other hope of passing on their genetics.
See also Eunuchs and Castration as a way to recreate a similar dynamic with humans. Castration had the fascinating ability to bind the interests of the Eunuchs more closely with the power structures and rules, by removing the option of family and progeny of their own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch#Asia_and_Africa
[Edit] As crazydoggers points out, it is probably better to view this through the lens of kin selection, with reproducers as the evolutionary agents.
Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)
#10The group selection part is really interesting evolution-wise. It seems a very slow and difficult method of selection. I had never considered how something dying, and not passing along their genetics, could enforce a genetic trait.
Is that not essentially the only way that selection happens? You are just desvribing basic natural selection