BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

>"Our ultimate hope is to get to a point where we're no longer necessary because the notion of DIY medicine, no matter anybody's opinion of it is common enough that if it comes up in conversation, someone can say 'Oh I'm just going to 3D print a replacement'".

>No, no, that is not going to be happening any time soon, or (frankly) at all. I could go one for another couple of thousand words about why that is, about solvents, waste disposal, availability of starting materials, purification, analytical data, formulations, particle size, excipients, and plenty of other topics that complicate that vision enormously. But really, why bother? The people who believe this stuff when they hear it will not be persuaded, because I'm obviously a Big Pharma Shill. Perhaps it will be worthwhile to just note that anyone who actually knows about drug synthesis and manufacture just rolls their eyes when this sort of thing comes up, rather than shaking with fear that their livelihood is under attack. It's like saying that you're going to make your own aluminum foil.

>But I'm sure that no matter what, Four Thieves will continue to make a big noise at biohacker events and the like, giving exciting presentations about how they're changing the world. But it's all. . .a joke. A show. Performance art. A cartoon. I hope they're enjoying themselves.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#6

Post by borski » Sun, Dec 29, 2024, 2:04 PM UTC

Metacelsus wrote: post #5

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/anarchist-drugs-ag... >"Our ultimate hope is to get to a point where we're no longer necessary because the notion of DIY medicine, no matter anybody's opinion of it is common enough that if it comes up in conversation, someone can say 'Oh I'm just going to 3D print a replacement'". >No, no, that is not going to be happening any time soon, or (frankly) at all. I could go one f…

This is a tone-deaf response that essentially boils down to “they’re small and it still isn’t trivial to do, so they don’t matter.”

This reminds me very much of the comments on HN when Dropbox first launched, swearing that nobody would ever need it because everyone can just do what they’ve already always done.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#7

Post by georgeburdell » Sun, Dec 29, 2024, 2:07 PM UTC

I’m put off by their website. It seems too well crafted for their main focus to be on their stated goal of giving individuals the tools to treat themselves. The actual aim seems closer to marketing or perhaps influencing public discourse on the subject

https://fourthievesvinegar.org/

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#8

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Dec 29, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

borski wrote: post #6

Metacelsus wrote: post #5

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/anarchist-drugs-ag... >"Our ultimate hope is to get to a point where we're no longer necessary because the notion of DIY medicine, no matter anybody's opinion of it is common enough that if it comes up in conversation, someone can say 'Oh I'm just going to 3D print a replacement'". >No, no, that is not going to be happening any time soon, or (frankly) at all. I could go one f…

This is a tone-deaf response that essentially boils down to “they’re small and it still isn’t trivial to do, so they don’t matter.” This reminds me very much of the comments on HN when Dropbox first launched, swearing that nobody would ever need it because everyone can just do what they’ve already always done.

It’s the opposite of the Dropbox comment, which asserted it was already easy to do. This criticism asserts it’s too hard.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#9

Post by borski » Sun, Dec 29, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #8

borski wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tone-deaf response that essentially boils down to “they’re small and it still isn’t trivial to do, so they don’t matter.” This reminds me very much of the comments on HN when Dropbox first launched, swearing that nobody would ever need it because everyone can just do what they’ve already always done.

It’s the opposite of the Dropbox comment, which asserted it was already easy to do. This criticism asserts it’s too hard.

Sorry, the implication was that it’s “easy to do” insofar as simply getting it from a pharma manufacturer.

The problem is getting the drugs you need is not easy to do, and while 4 thieves isn’t “easy” yet, it actually is way easier than arguing with insurance, needing a PA, getting a letter of medical necessity, only to still get rejected, and then having to argue with your state insurance board through an IMR.

That’s what I meant. All it takes is one or a few people to start doing this for friends, and it begins to spread.

And that says nothing of when Shkreli or anyone else jacks up the price of an important life-saving medication simply because, well, they can.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#10

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sun, Dec 29, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

Metacelsus wrote: post #5

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/anarchist-drugs-ag... >"Our ultimate hope is to get to a point where we're no longer necessary because the notion of DIY medicine, no matter anybody's opinion of it is common enough that if it comes up in conversation, someone can say 'Oh I'm just going to 3D print a replacement'". >No, no, that is not going to be happening any time soon, or (frankly) at all. I could go one f…

I get the snark on the technical merits, but saying that Four Thieves is just a joke is sort of like saying that Luigi Mangione is just a murderer. The reason that they have such notoriety is that countless people are deeply disappointed and frustrated by the state of the systems that they're lashing out against. It's arguably a cousin to the Silicon Valley "disruption" mindset: playing by the rules has only made things stagnant (if not worse), so the new heroes are the ones who make their own rules.