The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
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Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#2> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable.
Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry.
> China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the chemicals used to make those electrodes. It has been firming up the entire supply chain - all the way down to the mines. And while you can find only so much lithium and cobalt in China, Chinese firms have been buying up mines in Africa and elsewhere for years.
The fun thing is that the west saw it coming and didn't try particularly hard to forestall it. Consistent, long term industrial policy is very effective.
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#3this seems mostly about VW, a company that is both a huge presence in the EU economy and probably irrevocably f---ed
VW is slowly vanishing from US markets (EV or ICE) and tried to enter the Chinese market only to get the crap kicked out of it
I'd mention Stellantis which is also mostly an EU company now, but they are so screwed at this point it isn't even sporting
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#4> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
But focusing only on manufacturing is missing half of the picture. China is using for batteries the same playbook they used for PVs. They are spending a lot of money to hire all the top researchers they can in the field.
Truth is they are years ahead of most battery manufacturers in R&D.
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#5> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
Germany is IBM. Existing industries are too valuable and influential, and shifting something as entrenched as German auto industries is an expensive, difficult endeavour that isn't immediately as profitable as the existing business.
At least maybe we'll get to stick around as business consultants and selling mainframes to a handful of companies convinced by "nobody was ever fired for buying German".
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#6> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
The world knows how to make good cars now. The EU has to move on to the next problem if it wants to stay ahead.
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#7> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
>Consistent, long term industrial policy is very effective.
Which worked so well for Japan that you had Nobel economic laureates promoting it.
I'm being a bit sarcastic of course but MITA was seen as such the future in Japan--until it wasn't.
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#8> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
> Consistent, long term industrial policy is very effective.
Yes. This is what kills the US in rare earths, cobalt, gallium, etc. US mines shut down when the price goes down. Sometimes they restart when the price goes up. Sometimes they don't. All this churn makes the business unprofitable in the US.[1]
[1] https://mpmaterials.com/articles/mp-materials-reports-third-...
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#9> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
Germany had a giant, excellent chemicals industry. It has been shrinking due to higher natural gas prices. Natural gas is a crucial input for many bulk chemicals.
Re: The electric shock behind Europe's stuttering EV future
#10> The skills built up by European carmakers over decades are simply not directly transferrable. Germany does have a giant, excellent chemistry industry. > China's interest in batteries is not a recent trend. It has been investing in their production for many, many years. It has been attempting to dominate not just the production of cells but also of the cathodes and anodes that go inside them - not to mention the che…
I get the engine and transmission tech doesn’t translate over but the vast majority of the chassis, transmission and pretty much everything else stays the same in a car.
That being said, having driven my EV for a year or so I somewhat find ICE vehicles gross now. All that sputtering, poisons, jerkiness, continuous maintenance, loudness etc. just feels so primitive. The only place it still makes sense is for situations that require a lot of power like long distance hauling, heavy equipment etc.