XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#1

Post by todsacerdoti » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging
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Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#2

Post by snvzz » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:29 PM UTC

Refusal to do a flag day to implement ACK ultimately resulted in board dissolution, shitty unreliable protocol with zombie presences and lost messages.

Eventually, the community just walked away, to IM systems that actually work somewhat reliably.

This is how XMPP fell into irrelevance.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#3

Post by skeptrune » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

I think the big issue with XMPP are the clients. Element is so much better that it's hard not to recommend Matrix to people despite its bloat and metadata leakage problems.

JMP/Snikket for tying a normal phone number to your XMPP @ are really convenient, but the clients remain a problem. Plus, SIP dialers are not supported on IOS afaik.

I am really surprised there isn't a venture backed company pushing XMPP forward. Maybe people have tried and realized it's not viable.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#4

Post by mindcrime » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

I love XMPP. The phrase "the gem of Instant Messaging" really resonates here. I run an ejabberd instance and it works great.

For anybody who wants to see a random interesting (well, interesting to some) application of XMPP, I recently put together a small demo of using XMPP with Jason[1] to connect AgentSpeak[2] agents to chat.

https://github.com/jason-lang/jason/discussions/118

[1]: https://github.com/jason-lang/jason

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgentSpeak

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#5

Post by aidenn0 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

We evaluated some options at work for self-hosted chat about a decade ago. XMPP lost out due to the lack of a good iPhone client. Not sure if things are any better now.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#6

Post by arcbyte » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:46 PM UTC

XMPP lost because the spec is overcomplicated and hard to implement. As a result, good clients never materialized and innovation was really hard to do.

Everything in this article is an offshoot of the overcomplicated spec.

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#7

Post by fsflover » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:49 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #5

We evaluated some options at work for self-hosted chat about a decade ago. XMPP lost out due to the lack of a good iPhone client. Not sure if things are any better now.

Did you choose Matrix?

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#8

Post by jeffnappi » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:49 PM UTC

XMPP and specifically ejabberd are what made WhatsApp possible to build with ~50 people at absolutely massive scale (~400M MAU @ 2014 acquisition).

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#9

Post by WD-42 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:52 PM UTC

I really miss the days of being able to use pidgin to talk to everyone

Re: XMPP: The Gem of Instant Messaging

#10

Post by pixelatedindex » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:57 PM UTC

arcbyte wrote: post #6

XMPP lost because the spec is overcomplicated and hard to implement. As a result, good clients never materialized and innovation was really hard to do. Everything in this article is an offshoot of the overcomplicated spec.

Is there a “modern” equivalent to XMPP? How does it compare to the matrix protocol?