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Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

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Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#1
I've been thinking about scammers lately and thought about rendering numbers as a png in browsers instead of displaying them as HMTL for banks. This would ensure scammers can't just go in and edit the html on the fly potentially saving some people from this kind of attack.

I played around with libvips and can easily create a png with any text.

vips text x.png "1,234,567" --width 100 --align centre --dpi 340

Any thoughts on why this shouldn't be done?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#3
I don't understand your threat model:

> This would ensure scammers can't just go in and edit the html on the fly

How would the scammers "edit the HTML on the fly" of a bank's website that they don't control...?

If they can control it somehow (either via a hack, local malware, browser extension, or just hand-editing the site on the victim's computer)... well, they can just as easily replace your PNG with one of their own, or just replace it with regular HTML numbers.

If someone can control the bank website, it's game over. It's not a matter of graphics vs text?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#5
post #3

I don't understand your threat model: > This would ensure scammers can't just go in and edit the html on the fly How would the scammers "edit the HTML on the fly" of a bank's website that they don't control...? If they can control it somehow (either via a hack, local malware, browser extension, or just hand-editing the site on the victim's computer)... well, they can just as easily replace your PNG with one of their…

They ask a person to login to their bank account with screen sharing. They then take control of the mouse and edit the HTML on the fly making it look like they transferred a large amount to the bank account. Now they ask the person to wire money back or they will lose their job.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#6

1. This would break accessibility requirements. 2. Scammers can fake PNGs just like HTML.

I'll give you accessibility. I tried changing images in the browser on the fly and it just hides the image. That's probably because the browser would need to make a new GET request.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#7
post #3

I don't understand your threat model: > This would ensure scammers can't just go in and edit the html on the fly How would the scammers "edit the HTML on the fly" of a bank's website that they don't control...? If they can control it somehow (either via a hack, local malware, browser extension, or just hand-editing the site on the victim's computer)... well, they can just as easily replace your PNG with one of their…

They ask a person to login to their bank account with screen sharing. They then take control of the mouse and edit the HTML on the fly making it look like they transferred a large amount to the bank account. Now they ask the person to wire money back or they will lose their job.

If they already control your browser, they don't have to edit the HTML and fake anything. They can just transfer money to themselves from your account...

If they wanted to edit the HTML for some reason, it's trivial to just use their own image or replace the with their own text.

The prevention for this isn't to render texts as image, but not to screen share your computer with random people online, much less hand mouse control over to them while you're logged in to your bank. If it's some elderly person doing this or the such, you should really teach them better or they'll get scammed from much less esoteric threats :(

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#9

1. This would break accessibility requirements. 2. Scammers can fake PNGs just like HTML.

I'll give you accessibility. I tried changing images in the browser on the fly and it just hides the image. That's probably because the browser would need to make a new GET request.

That's probably a content security policy or CSS thing. Just tried it on a site (not HN, because of content security) and it worked fine.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't banks render numbers as PNGs instead of using HTML?

#10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ask a person to login to their bank account with screen sharing. They then take control of the mouse and edit the HTML on the fly making it look like they transferred a large amount to the bank account. Now they ask the person to wire money back or they will lose their job.

If they already control your browser, they don't have to edit the HTML and fake anything. They can just transfer money to themselves from your account... If they wanted to edit the HTML for some reason, it's trivial to just use their own image or replace the with their own text. The prevention for this isn't to render texts as image, but not to screen share your computer with random people online, much less hand mous…

If you're interested, I would suggest watching some Kitboga. I don't actually know anyone that has had this happen but there are plenty of stories around the internet. I will try doing some img replacement with my own text and see how it works out.
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