Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
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Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#2Well this is only as strong as the makeup of the board! OpenAI has the same model.
> Among other members of the Foundation's board is Sir Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of HTML, HTTP, and almost everything else about the web.
Well that's good news!
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#3Reminder that Proton is not "private". They have all the keys, and willingly operate in a jurisdiction where they bend over backwards for ridiculous court orders.
From their own transparency page:
Number of legal orders: 6,378
Contested orders: 407
Orders complied with: 5,971
They did this to expose protestors and people who upset the powers that be, rarely real criminals.
They could choose to operate in a country that respects rights and design their tech so that there's nothing valuable to hand over. This is what Mullvad did.
*Edit: HN has been overwhelmed with poor quality users and bots growing in the last few years. Same as reddit there are paid services used to manipulate voting. HN needs to migrate away from this in order for real discussions to return.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#4While still working on lots of stuff in their portfolio, I’ve been extremely pleased with their entire portfolio. They just continue to improve and have become a viable competitor to Google in all but the photos area, and they are working on that.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#5Reminder that Proton is not "private". They have all the keys, and willingly operate in a jurisdiction where they bend over backwards for ridiculous court orders. From their own transparency page: Number of legal orders: 6,378 Contested orders: 407 Orders complied with: 5,971 They did this to expose protestors and people who upset the powers that be, rarely real criminals. They could choose to operate in a country th…
You should back up your claim of "they have all the keys", because for things like email and file contents they claim they cannot decrypt them because they do not have those keys (which you have said they do).
I believe it was stated on the page you copied those stats from https://proton.me/legal/transparency
> As stated in our Privacy Policy, all emails, files and invites are encrypted and we have no means to decrypt them.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#6Reminder that Proton is not "private". They have all the keys, and willingly operate in a jurisdiction where they bend over backwards for ridiculous court orders. From their own transparency page: Number of legal orders: 6,378 Contested orders: 407 Orders complied with: 5,971 They did this to expose protestors and people who upset the powers that be, rarely real criminals. They could choose to operate in a country th…
You should back up your claim of "they have all the keys", because for things like email and file contents they claim they cannot decrypt them because they do not have those keys (which you have said they do). I believe it was stated on the page you copied those stats from https://proton.me/legal/transparency > As stated in our Privacy Policy, all emails, files and invites are encrypted and we have no means to decryp…
They're all encrypted by themselves and if you use your own gpg key they will replace it.
They're all encrypted except when you pay more for dedicated smtp.
They're all encrypted except when they give up logs they promised they didn't have.
And so on.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#7Reminder that Proton is not "private". They have all the keys, and willingly operate in a jurisdiction where they bend over backwards for ridiculous court orders. From their own transparency page: Number of legal orders: 6,378 Contested orders: 407 Orders complied with: 5,971 They did this to expose protestors and people who upset the powers that be, rarely real criminals. They could choose to operate in a country th…
From the same transparency report page, they refuse any requests from countries that are not Switzerland, and only provide information to Swiss authorities when necessary (I.E. valid international legal assistance, violations of Swiss law, etc).
As well, emails and files are encrypted. And their VPN is a no-log VPN.
Lastly, they can comply with an order and just give them nothing, because they don't have anything they can give. No files (E2EE), no VPN network info (No-logging), no emails (E2EE), etc. That's still, legally, an order they complied with.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#8Proton's announcement was posted here (10 comments so far):
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#9Reminder that Proton is not "private". They have all the keys, and willingly operate in a jurisdiction where they bend over backwards for ridiculous court orders. From their own transparency page: Number of legal orders: 6,378 Contested orders: 407 Orders complied with: 5,971 They did this to expose protestors and people who upset the powers that be, rarely real criminals. They could choose to operate in a country th…
You should back up your claim of "they have all the keys", because for things like email and file contents they claim they cannot decrypt them because they do not have those keys (which you have said they do). I believe it was stated on the page you copied those stats from https://proton.me/legal/transparency > As stated in our Privacy Policy, all emails, files and invites are encrypted and we have no means to decryp…
How do the emails get decrypted then? I imagine your password would decrypt the keys which would allow them to decrypt the emails?
It seems like the next time you log in they would be able to capture your password and decrypt your emails.
Re: Proton is taking its privacy-first apps to a nonprofit foundation model
#10The new emerging hybrid model of non-profit foundations paired with for-profit businesses is certainly interesting, as it combines some "greater good" principles with the ability to build products and run businesses in a modern competitive market. I feel it may take some time to work out the details of these models. The biggest example we've seen is OpenAI, which, in my opinion, still hasn't solved this model and is torn between lucrative multibillion business opportunities and adherence to its founding principles.