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Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

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Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#1

Post by oropolo »

I have a side-hustle doing podcast production and hosting. Rather than charging a fixed fee I operate on the "value for value" model: if you got some value from the work I'm doing then please visit my website and return some value by sending in a donation, either a check in the mail or online using Stripe. This has worked very well for the past few years and I've been able to cover all of my expenses, upgrade my gear, and make people happy.

Now I've now been told by Stripe that my business is in violation of their rule; for more than two days I've been trying to get someone -- ANYONE -- at Stripe to tell me how I'm in violation and what I can do to remedy the situation but the only reply I've gotten is "Unfortunately, following an additional review of your account, we’re still unable to support your business as it falls under one of our restricted businesses categories" but no details are given beyond that. The only thing that seems to make sense as prohibited is "Transactions that provide compensation to creators without an underlying piece of digital content associated. Examples include subscriptions to free, public content or a tip button on a profile page." Okay, if that's the problem then I'll take down the donation button and sell actual swag (t-shirts, mugs, whatever) but give me a chance to comply instead of just saying you don't want to do business with me without ever giving me an unambiguous reason!

UPDATE: I finally got a reply from someone at Stripe who pointed me at this page -- https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses -- but now I have to start this question cycle again because nothing on this page applies to what I am doing.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#3

Post by legitster »

https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses

https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept....

> Content creation - Transactions that provide compensation to creators without an underlying piece of digital content associated. Examples include subscriptions to free, public content or a tip button on a profile page

It seems like an arbitrary restriction, but Stripe also works a lot more closely with banks and payment processors so they tend to inherit a lot of banking sector restrictions.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#4

Post by oropolo »

legitster wrote: post #3

https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept... . > Content creation - Transactions that provide compensation to creators without an underlying piece of digital content associated. Examples include subscriptions to free, public content or a tip button on a profile page It seems like an arbitrary restriction, but Stripe also works a lot more closely with b…

So if I sell digital certificates -- a PDF that says someone donated to my little media side-hustle -- it would be all good? See that's the problem: nobody will tell me what I can do to come into compliance. And as for the banks: I have been paying my taxes for years and the bank connected to this account has zero issues with what I do and are happy to deposit checks made out to my DBA (and then charge me a fee for having a business checking account).

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#7

Post by renewiltord »

Amicius wrote: post #2

So if tips or donations are prohibited, why is there a page on Stripe support detailing rules for donations, one of which is "for a good or service that has been provided?" https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept...

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#8

Post by e63f67dd-065b »

oropolo wrote: post #4
legitster wrote: post #3

https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept... . > Content creation - Transactions that provide compensation to creators without an underlying piece of digital content associated. Examples include subscriptions to free, public content or a tip button on a profile page It seems like an arbitrary restriction, but Stripe also works a lot more closely with b…

So if I sell digital certificates -- a PDF that says someone donated to my little media side-hustle -- it would be all good? See that's the problem: nobody will tell me what I can do to come into compliance. And as for the banks: I have been paying my taxes for years and the bank connected to this account has zero issues with what I do and are happy to deposit checks made out to my DBA (and then charge me a fee for h…

It’s not your bank, it’s payment networks and stripe’s partner banks. Visa and MC are notorious for being the de-facto arbiter of allowed businesses, they have extensive yet vague guidelines on what is allowed due to porn stuff a long time ago and their partners try their best to read the tea leaves to see if what they do is fine.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#9

Post by oropolo »

renewiltord wrote: post #7
Amicius wrote: post #2

So if tips or donations are prohibited, why is there a page on Stripe support detailing rules for donations, one of which is "for a good or service that has been provided?" https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept...

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Is podcast production somehow not a good or service? Is the problem that I'm using the wrong word -- donation instead of tip -- on the button?

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#10

Post by oropolo »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #8
oropolo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I sell digital certificates -- a PDF that says someone donated to my little media side-hustle -- it would be all good? See that's the problem: nobody will tell me what I can do to come into compliance. And as for the banks: I have been paying my taxes for years and the bank connected to this account has zero issues with what I do and are happy to deposit checks made out to my DBA (and then charge me a fee for h…

It’s not your bank, it’s payment networks and stripe’s partner banks. Visa and MC are notorious for being the de-facto arbiter of allowed businesses, they have extensive yet vague guidelines on what is allowed due to porn stuff a long time ago and their partners try their best to read the tea leaves to see if what they do is fine.

If they are making editorial/values based judgement on who they allow to process payments on their platform then it seems they cannot be immune under the common carrier defense and are liable for being sued for refusing to do business with lawful entities, no?
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