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.NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

aaronstannard.com

1–10 of 31 posts

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#2
The experience I have of working in C# and .NET is that you use everything from Microsoft, even if it sucks. It's like a rule that goes through every "Microsoft shop" out there.

They are as much of zombies as the apple fanboys are. It doesn't matter what the company do, they will buy it and lick it up like they were a cat licking cream from a platter.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#4
I'm a .NET developer, and honestly, this is the worst part of being one; we get good third party tools, we get promises from Microsoft about them being all about open source, and Microsoft constantly move in and obliterate all the competition; there are countless examples out there. A few years ago we had a great amount of choice around DI containers for example - they filled an obvious gap Microsoft had given no solution at all for within their framework despite its many years of existence. Then one day they come along with a DI container that is far inferior to the existing offerings, but it's the default on a new project... the whole community immediately stays with this default option despite the obvious inferiority. Today I never find any modern .NET apps using anything other than this default, and I still think it's inferior to what we had.

Microsoft have always adhered to 'Embrace. Extend. Extinguish', and it is alive and kicking today in every area of open source they touch, be it this, GitHub, Windows Subsystem on Linux... they have no real interest in open source, except to crush it as best they can.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#5

I'm a .NET developer, and honestly, this is the worst part of being one; we get good third party tools, we get promises from Microsoft about them being all about open source, and Microsoft constantly move in and obliterate all the competition; there are countless examples out there. A few years ago we had a great amount of choice around DI containers for example - they filled an obvious gap Microsoft had given no sol…

> one day they come along with a DI container that is far inferior to the existing offerings

Microsoft baked-in DI is purposefully designed to be as minimal as possible, such that you can start quickly without getting into too much abstractions. And once you reach a level where you need a more powerful (and thus complex) DI container, you can easily plug it in and seamingly bridge within the minimal MS one. This allows to migrate in iterations to your DI container. And from my experience, the built-in one is enough for a lot of basic usecases.

Plus, it is way easier to move a codebase from MS-built in DI to any other 3rd party DI, than to move a codebase which grew without DI at all.

There is a reason why there is a ton of DI containers out there (Autofac, Funq, NInject, CastleWindsor, StructureMap etc) and ALL are differently opinionated and made different design decisions. What would have been your suggestion for MS, which one to bake into the ASP.NET Framework? There is NO way you pick any and not upset the people on the other side of the fence. IMHO MS did the right way, and tried to go with a minimal version that shares a common denominator with all of them, so they can be easily plugged in when needed. This is exactly what having choice means.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#6
The old saying one doesn't get fired by buying IBM also applies to Microsoft, Apple, Google, Sun/Oracle.

You see this on the Android ecosystem, until Google finally started pushing common set of libraries on AndroidX, later Jetpack, everyone used to complain about lack of direction on how to develop apps.

The full experience on a box from Apple platforms.

While the author rightfully points out Java isn't as bad, libraries that aren't part of Apache foundation, Java EE/Jakarta EE compliant, or Spring (which also includes a subset of EE JSRs), usually are largely ignored.

As polyglot dev that uses .NET, what is disappointing is how the whole .NET FOSS turned out to be, not necessarly what is happening with .NET 9 per se.

We have key team members trolling the community that Windows/Visual Studio is the best experience, which it is, because they killed the VS4Mac, VSCode plugins are still not as good as Python/Java from other Microsoft teams, now replaced by C# Dev Kit with the same licensing scheme as Visual Studio. The poor F# gets Ionide as good as they can manage.

Anyone that is unhappy with this experience outside Windows, has to buy Rider, versus other language communities that can jump into InteliJ Community, Eclipse, Netbeans without paying a dime (donations are welcomed for Eclipse and Netbeans).

Then we have the GUI mess, thankfully there are Uno and Avalonia now, or how Azure is driving ASP.NET design, which on the other ecosystems is indeed driven by collaborations and not really single vendor.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#8

I'm a .NET developer, and honestly, this is the worst part of being one; we get good third party tools, we get promises from Microsoft about them being all about open source, and Microsoft constantly move in and obliterate all the competition; there are countless examples out there. A few years ago we had a great amount of choice around DI containers for example - they filled an obvious gap Microsoft had given no sol…

> one day they come along with a DI container that is far inferior to the existing offerings Microsoft baked-in DI is purposefully designed to be as minimal as possible, such that you can start quickly without getting into too much abstractions. And once you reach a level where you need a more powerful (and thus complex) DI container, you can easily plug it in and seamingly bridge within the minimal MS one. This allo…

What would you recommend as an easy upgrade from the default DI?

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#10
Microsoft gonna Microsoft.

And people who have gone all-in on the Microsoft ecosystem are... a special bunch. I sat in on a meetup with some of them once and it soon became clear that I was in a room full of Morts on Microsoft's own Mort-Elvis-Einstein scale. The concept of using variables in PowerShell scripts seemed to mystify them. No surprise then that that sort of person would be terrified to use anything not blessed by the Holy See-Sharp in Redmond.

It's kind of a shame because open-source .NET is really kinda nice. No real C# language support in Emacs, though, and barely any in VS Code without going for the proprietary stuff.

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