How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
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Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#2Further discussion here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39466851
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#3The Great Green Wall is ambitious in scope, but composed of relatively simple parts: capturing rain-water with berms, planting the right kinds of plants in the right order, and creating a system of ecologically sound incentives for people to participate in the project. It's wonderful to learn about.
Andrew Millison, the creator of the linked YouTube video, has an interesting channel where he essentially showcases applications of / advances in ecological technology (i.e., permaculture.) I take some solace in the fact that his videos get millions of views; suggesting that permaculture / ecological design principles aren't some fringe-y thing any more.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#4It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times.
Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the public reception to these ideas is mostly around who's doing the deed. Often, when someone in a rich country proposes something like this, the argument will be something about capitalism. However, when a poor country does it, despite it also being about wealth at the end of the day, it's lauded. Now again, I'm totally in favor of all these efforts and totally understand why people do it. It's just a duality I've noticed; and I'm not sure what to think about it.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#5It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times. Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the…
I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara.
Should Africa's desert be preserved to feed the Amazon? That's a question humanity seems ill equipped to answer.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#6It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times. Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the…
I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara. Should Africa's desert be preserved to feed the Amazon? That's a question humanity seems ill equipped to answer.
The Sahara desert is 3.5 million square miles. That will never be re-forested.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#7It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times. Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the…
I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara. Should Africa's desert be preserved to feed the Amazon? That's a question humanity seems ill equipped to answer.
> logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die
This seems like a very large leap of reasoning to "logically" make.
My understanding is that Saharan dust clouds carry phosphorus across the Atlantic, which nourish the Amazon.
It doesn't follow that Africa stopping the expansion of the Sahara will kill this cycle. The Sahel has historically been used for agriculture (with periods of massive drought in between) and preventing the Sahara from expanding into it does not mean erasing the rest of the Sahara.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#8It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times. Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the…
Do hand-dug berms planted with native and non-invasive plants count as technology?
And is increasing desertification one of earth's natural processes or is it an effect of technology, specifically technology we've used to pull massive amounts of carbon out of the ground and add it to the atmosphere?
Not trying to be hostile, just questioning some of your assumptions.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara. Should Africa's desert be preserved to feed the Amazon? That's a question humanity seems ill equipped to answer.
The Sahara desert is 3.5 million square miles. That will never be re-forested.
Never is a pretty long time. One of my favorite authors: Doris Lessing, wrote a book called: "Mara and Dan" which has a very interesting take on climate change. I would recommend all of her books to anyone who wants to stretch their perception of our world.
Re: How the Great Green Wall is holding back the Sahara desert
#10It seems crazy to me that after we've had so many unintended consequences preventing earth's natural processes using technology, the same crowd is now celebrating using technology to prevent yet another of earth's natural processes. Regardless of your position on the Sahara desert, it's been growing since Roman times. Personally, I'm in favor of the use of technology to affect the planet, but it seems to me that the…
I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara. Should Africa's desert be preserved to feed the Amazon? That's a question humanity seems ill equipped to answer.
> I respect the right of Africa to try and reforest, but logically the most likely outcome is that the Amazon will start to die from the lack of the 30 million tons of dust and sand that fall on the Amazon each year from the Sahara.
Math. Stopping the Sahara from expanding doesn't change how much dust and sand are going over to the Amazon, it just caps it at the current amount.