EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
1–10 of 14 posts
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#2Although I think this is fraught and probably will create an entire industry of suit and countersuit I am unsure any jurisdiction has much choice here.
I'm really uncomfortable with both thought crime and implied free speech issues in this and the mechanistic aspects of how an llm and gpt system works makes me wonder who else but the hosting company can be legally at risk here.
I think it would be a mistake to say this is victimless crime, even if I can't point to a victim.
The hentai/domai and related cartoon industry probably has a higher legal risk if this gets up.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#3I think the title is misleading clickbait, since it suggests the EU is proposing something similar to the recent UK law, or laws in other jurisdictions regulating AI deepfakes in general; whereas this is entirely about the depiction of CSAM using AI (confusing in itself, since I'm fairly sure that EU regulations already prohibit the non-photographic, i.e., artistic depiction of such content).
A more accurate and less click-baity title might be 'EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated and deepfaked child sexual abuse content'
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#4I think the title is misleading clickbait, since it suggests the EU is proposing something similar to the recent UK law, or laws in other jurisdictions regulating AI deepfakes in general; whereas this is entirely about the depiction of CSAM using AI (confusing in itself, since I'm fairly sure that EU regulations already prohibit the non-photographic, i.e., artistic depiction of such content). A more accurate and less…
I think this goes counter to the concept of CSAM - the entire reason to switch away from the earlier term of CP was to explicitly make a point and emphasize that it's not about titillating material involving children but rather that it's material resulting from violent abuse of children, and creating such material involves more abuse, and consuming such material funds and motivates such abuse.
On the other hand, any AI-generated content, no matter what it shows, is substantially different from CSAM, as creating the next image did not require any more abuse. I'd also argue that "artistic" depictions should not be labeled CSAM and instead the older CP term is more appropriate, and the difference is meaningful with respect to whether it should be criminalized; someone paying money for CSAM funds a rape of a kid, but the same person paying same money for an "artistic depiction" just funds someone clicking around on a computer - there's a world of difference in the harmfulness of these activities, and the legal penalties should reflect that.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#5I think the title is misleading clickbait, since it suggests the EU is proposing something similar to the recent UK law, or laws in other jurisdictions regulating AI deepfakes in general; whereas this is entirely about the depiction of CSAM using AI (confusing in itself, since I'm fairly sure that EU regulations already prohibit the non-photographic, i.e., artistic depiction of such content). A more accurate and less…
I think this goes counter to the concept of CSAM - the entire reason to switch away from the earlier term of CP was to explicitly make a point and emphasize that it's not about titillating material involving children but rather that it's material resulting from violent abuse of children, and creating such material involves more abuse, and consuming such material funds and motivates such abuse. On the other hand, any…
>but the same person paying same money for an "artistic depiction" just funds someone clicking around on a computer - there's a world of difference in the harmfulness of these activities, and the legal penalties should reflect that.
that distinction becauses dodgier when you consider the checkpoint training methods are suspected of using csam imagery within the training corpus[0], but I agree with your points otherwise.
In principal an AI generated image doesn't exploit someone elses' existence if trained on safe and sane data.
[0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/12/20/stab...
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this goes counter to the concept of CSAM - the entire reason to switch away from the earlier term of CP was to explicitly make a point and emphasize that it's not about titillating material involving children but rather that it's material resulting from violent abuse of children, and creating such material involves more abuse, and consuming such material funds and motivates such abuse. On the other hand, any…
>but the same person paying same money for an "artistic depiction" just funds someone clicking around on a computer - there's a world of difference in the harmfulness of these activities, and the legal penalties should reflect that. that distinction becauses dodgier when you consider the checkpoint training methods are suspected of using csam imagery within the training corpus[0], but I agree with your points otherwi…
I think that even if it would be trained on a large set of actual CSAM data, it makes a very practical difference that the "marginal cost" of new images doesn't imply more abuse.
E.g. I have a local example in mind after a local pedophile was arrested in a bust of an international CSAM ring, the story goes that he was consuming CSAM, and joining that "better" ring of CSAM content required providing "original content" (that's one way they protected against law enforcement infiltration) and allegedly that need for that was the reason he went from watching CSAM to actually molesting several kids to film it. If we can remove this kind of motivation, that's IMHO a good thing for society.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#7It's hard enough stopping child pornography when there are real children used to make it...
But when the difference between the difference between the digital representation of a child and that of an adult just becomes a variable in a parameter space?
It'll be impossible to stop.
Child pornography is a byproduct of human trafficking, and that's where the focus needs to be.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#8Although I think this is fraught and probably will create an entire industry of suit and countersuit I am unsure any jurisdiction has much choice here. I'm really uncomfortable with both thought crime and implied free speech issues in this and the mechanistic aspects of how an llm and gpt system works makes me wonder who else but the hosting company can be legally at risk here. I think it would be a mistake to say th…
I don't think there's an immediate victim with this, but I wonder at whether or not easy access to this sort of content would increase the risk of real world offending.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#9Is it even possible to distinguish between such deepfakes and real footage at this point? Maybe they do that also so that there is no defensive line over claiming CSAM videos found are deepfakes and thus not a crime?
Moreover even AI generated CSAM has to trained somewhere. It is not certain at all that an increase in AI generated CSAM market would necessarily mean less child abuse.
Re: EU proposes criminalizing AI-generated child sexual abuse and deepfakes
#10It's hard enough stopping child pornography when there are real children used to make it... But when the difference between the difference between the digital representation of a child and that of an adult just becomes a variable in a parameter space? It'll be impossible to stop. Child pornography is a byproduct of human trafficking, and that's where the focus needs to be.
> It's hard enough stopping child pornography when there are real children used to make it...
But real children _were_ harmed in order to train the AI.