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Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

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Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#2
A few weeks ago I was taking the train but before boarding I noticed two police officers doing their daily patrol and started chatting with them about a crazy lady at the top of the station's stairs. They said they couldn't do anything because it was not their job to take care of the insane to which I couldn't really say anything other than "I guess that sounds about right". The train I was going to take started to depart but one guy managed to stick his arm out to keep one of the doors open. The conductor saw this and refused to re-open the doors even though the guy seemed to be visibly distraught and maybe even in pain. He was trying to help me catch the train but the conductor had other ideas.

It's not just the machines that are ruthless. The operators also take on attributes of the machines they manage and in the process inflict willful cruelty on others through their control of the machinery. The most obvious example of this is, of course, war and the technology associated with its execution. So this essay is right, machines/algorithms are ruthless but it is the people that use them to inflict pain and suffering on others that makes the whole thing into a grand tragedy.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#3
post #2

A few weeks ago I was taking the train but before boarding I noticed two police officers doing their daily patrol and started chatting with them about a crazy lady at the top of the station's stairs. They said they couldn't do anything because it was not their job to take care of the insane to which I couldn't really say anything other than "I guess that sounds about right". The train I was going to take started to d…

> The operators also take on attributes of the machines they manage and in the process inflict willful cruelty on others through their control of the machinery. The most obvious example of this is, of course, war and the technology associated with its execution. So this essay is right, machines/algorithms are ruthless but it is the people that use them to inflict pain and suffering on others that makes the whole thing into a grand tragedy.

This mirrors my experience. About six months ago, I had an accident on the metro in my city, where my leg slipped between the train and platform while deboarding. Not only did passers by not help, the "operators" stood idly by. While I am lucky to have escaped with "just" an ACL tear, I would have lost my leg that day if my friend hadn't been there to pull me out.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#4
post #2

A few weeks ago I was taking the train but before boarding I noticed two police officers doing their daily patrol and started chatting with them about a crazy lady at the top of the station's stairs. They said they couldn't do anything because it was not their job to take care of the insane to which I couldn't really say anything other than "I guess that sounds about right". The train I was going to take started to d…

> The operators also take on attributes of the machines they manage and in the process inflict willful cruelty on others through their control of the machinery. The most obvious example of this is, of course, war and the technology associated with its execution. So this essay is right, machines/algorithms are ruthless but it is the people that use them to inflict pain and suffering on others that makes the whole thin…

Glad to hear you managed to get out of the incident alive.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#5
I don't feel this kind of "ruthlessness" is particularly inherent to computers.

It seems to me an inherent property of the non-human universe, i.e "everything but us" - gravity is extremely unforgiving if you happen to step off the wrong thing, a sharp rock can slice you open with a moment's inattention. If you find yourself in the wrong environment you will die of thirst or hunger or asphyxiate. Nature is not "kind". Eventually even our bodies turn on us.

Human kindness and judgement have a very limited sphere of influence, it just (rightly) feels huge because it's at the center of human life.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#6
post #5

I don't feel this kind of "ruthlessness" is particularly inherent to computers. It seems to me an inherent property of the non-human universe, i.e "everything but us" - gravity is extremely unforgiving if you happen to step off the wrong thing, a sharp rock can slice you open with a moment's inattention. If you find yourself in the wrong environment you will die of thirst or hunger or asphyxiate. Nature is not "kind"…

Nature is not kind, but neither is it vindictive; the wild world outside humanity will generally treat you with mere indifference. Conversely, there is nothing on earth capable of inflicting more sustained, intentional harm than a group of humans with hearts full of righteous certainty.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#7
This article speaks of ruthlessness of the machine for 99% of the time, and then with absolutely no logical reasoning, says at the end that ruthlessnes is inherently oppressive. Because it has the power to be it. In reality, it's the opposite: it's human flawed moral compass that makes a machine a weapon. Until we understand and address this, we will find no peace.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#8
While the article acknowledges that another way to look at computers/machines is to call them "incorruptible", it sticks to "ruthless" and "oppression" throughout.

Instead, I'd use a different, neutral term like someone used for nature here: they are indifferent to our emotions.

But that's about right: so are shovels, or meteorites, waterfalls, or a rock falling off a cliff. The main difference is that most of those inert objects act in accordance with natural forces, whereas machines have some unnatural movement (like sideways with train doors).

The other difference is that we have introduced many more of such inert objects "acting" into our environment, but we have been doing that long before we could build sophisticated machines and computers (ceilings did fall, statues and bridges collapsed, animals killed and hurt their stewards...).

As such, I would vehemently disagree: prescribing any moral direction to objects can only confuse and introduce FUD (has been done throughout history). With machines, we actually have an ability to choose the behaviour (adding sensors to train doors is pretty simple).

The fact that we don't is purely our choice, the same way we teach our kids by letting them fall, get a bad grade or experience anything negative — not because we don't love them. Do you feel like delaying a train of 1000 people because you are slightly late is ok? Would you go and thank everyone or apologize to anyone affected on the train — if you were not ruthless, you would, right?

I don't really believe the above, I am simply showing how easy it is to turn this on its head.

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#9
It’s just a tool. Like any other, it works for its master. A hammer can be used for good or bad. A knife, a brick, a gun and so on.

The problem is humans. We need people who refuse to govern using oppression. Corporate leaders who refuse to prioritise profit over human rights. And developers who have a moral compass of what should and should not be built.

But why would this technology be any different to prior new technologies…

Re: Computers are an inherently oppressive technology (2022)

#10
People with power and influence are operators of oppression. For eg. logistics. The work of delivery guys gamified and optimized for the minimizing the cost. Its people who are creating these systems and not the computer. Computer can help create cars, vaccines etc. as well.
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