Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 1001 posts

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#2

Post by dang »

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don't post. By compassion I mean something more spacious than angry identification.

I'm not saying that this is the purpose of HN (we're not aiming quite that high) but I do think it's the only way to touch a topic like this without destroying that purpose, which is thoughtful, curious conversation. It may be nearly impossible to relate to such a topic from such a place, but nearly != entirely, and it's part of HN's mandate to try. Consider this an experiment, or perhaps an advanced exercise, in community.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#4

Post by dang »

ameminator wrote: post #3

I honestly don't think this subject should be on here. I don't think it's possible for a coherent or respectful or even useful conversation to happen here. I haven't seen any conversation about this topic that hadn't gone to hell.

Yes, you're of course right—and at the same time, if I ask myself how to follow HN's core principle [1] in relation to this topic, I can't see "don't touch it at all" as right either. It may be an impossible quandary—but it's not in the spirit of this place to take an easy way out; or to put it differently, the easy way out (if one exists) is not in the spirit of this place.

What does "curiosity" mean in a context like this? It certainly needs to be more than just a technical dissection of details. I think it has to do with being open to learning. For that we have to be open to each other. And for that, we have to first find some space for the other within ourselves. Comments that have to do with annihilating the other (including in virtual form, such as by defeating them in internet battle) are therefore off-topic in a thread like this, as I posted above.

(Edit: there's also a kind of curiosity in walking into the impossible to find out what's doable; and also in taking a different approach with each attempt—which is why my pinned comment in this thread is different from last time.)

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#5

Post by banku_brougham »

Im glad to see the community engage with this -- there couldnt be a more significant current event happening right now and its jarring that it would be so silent.

Edit: And why is it relevant here? At a minimum coworkers are suffering silently through it. The emotional damage just for internet bystanders is staggering.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#6

Post by ameminator »

dang wrote: post #4
ameminator wrote: post #3

I honestly don't think this subject should be on here. I don't think it's possible for a coherent or respectful or even useful conversation to happen here. I haven't seen any conversation about this topic that hadn't gone to hell.

Yes, you're of course right—and at the same time, if I ask myself how to follow HN's core principle [1] in relation to this topic, I can't see "don't touch it at all" as right either. It may be an impossible quandary—but it's not in the spirit of this place to take an easy way out; or to put it differently, the easy way out (if one exists) is not in the spirit of this place. What does "curiosity" mean in a context li…

You're also absolutely right - I hadn't considered that point of view, and that we also shouldn't be "de facto" censoring subjects. I implore the community here to not ruin the general HN forum with the usual insanity around this subject.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#8

Post by blaufast »

I think HN readers have a strong desire to speak the inconvenient or untouchable topics. I think this is a healthy impulse.

This topic is hard because so many commenters are triggered by it, for lack of a better word.

Could AI help here? What if a comment was given an automatic 'emotional temperature' score? We might be able to address the fact that a lot of the comments will be basically pure emotion, and we can discuss the emotions instead of being distracted by the content.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#9

Post by ameminator »

banku_brougham wrote: post #5

Im glad to see the community engage with this -- there couldnt be a more significant current event happening right now and its jarring that it would be so silent. Edit: And why is it relevant here? At a minimum coworkers are suffering silently through it. The emotional damage just for internet bystanders is staggering.

In my experience, the "benefit of the doubt" has been lost in relation to this subject. I no longer believe it is possible to have any thread about this remain civil. It's tragic and a tragic subject, although I dispute the "there couldn't be a more significant current event" - lots of events are equally (or more) significant and relevant. I hope to be proven wrong, but I have doubts.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#10

Post by throwing_away »

jraby3 wrote: post #7

Just a reminder that Aljazeera is the state sponsored news of Qatar, a county that hosts Hamas leaders and is close allies with Iran. It’s not a valid news source.

That would explain the factual inaccuracies that I've noticed in their reporting since the events of October.

I assumed it was because of a religious ideology, but a state sponsor makes sense too.

Post reply on HN