75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
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Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#2I've found that there isn't a lot of discussion or research around this subject. Shoutout to engprax, a compliance company, for clearly approaching the issue.
Is it actually an issue though? Software engineers by design (?) are not capital "P" professionals. There's no certification or board underwriting our work. Software engineering/developers have had the latitude to "move fast" and represent the only "professional" trade that has the ability to "try again" (with a deployment) versus a structural engineer for example.
> Dr Junade Ali CEng FIET, the Principal Investigator of the study, said: “Recent developments demonstrate the fundamental importance of software engineers being free to raise the alarm when they become aware of potential wrongdoing; unfortunately our research has highlighted that software engineers are not sufficiently protected when they need to do so. From software engineers facing mass retaliation for speaking up and banned gagging clauses still being used, to ‘industry-standard’ software development metrics not considering the public’s risk appetite; this investigation has highlighted systematic and profound issues with society-wide impact, given how integral computers are to all our lives.
With the ubiquitous nature of software in modern society are we at the point were we need certification? The development and certification of "industry-standards"? This theme, balancing innovation with responsibility, is throughout the the Biden Administration's Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, Trustworthy Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence (Order).
Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the code? Or the executive who ordered the change?
There's are plenty of examples of this in recent history. Where engineers/developers released code they knew was harmful/fraudulent but did so anyway under fear of retaliation.
> FTX (Nishad Singh) https://www.reuters.com/technology/how-secret-software-chang...
> Pollen https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/pollen/#:~:text=Later%2C%....
I wonder where this is going to go.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#3I've found that there isn't a lot of discussion or research around this subject. Shoutout to engprax, a compliance company, for clearly approaching the issue. Is it actually an issue though? Software engineers by design (?) are not capital "P" professionals. There's no certification or board underwriting our work. Software engineering/developers have had the latitude to "move fast" and represent the only "professiona…
> Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the code?
Yes. The person who wrote the shit is responsible as much as the person who ordered the change.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#4Extensible to nearly all professions? In academia it happens..
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#5Just 75%? A friend was working for one of those AI startups. They wanted him to download and effectively steal documents for training their LLM. When he pointed out that the TOS explicitly forbade mass downloading, they fired him immediately. Sleezy times.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#6I've found that there isn't a lot of discussion or research around this subject. Shoutout to engprax, a compliance company, for clearly approaching the issue. Is it actually an issue though? Software engineers by design (?) are not capital "P" professionals. There's no certification or board underwriting our work. Software engineering/developers have had the latitude to "move fast" and represent the only "professiona…
> Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the code? Yes. The person who wrote the shit is responsible as much as the person who ordered the change.
I could not agree more.
We are all responsible for our actions and the results our actions cause. "I was just following orders" in no way absolves anyone of that responsibility.
That you may pay a price for doing the right thing doesn't make avoiding doing it acceptable.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the code? Yes. The person who wrote the shit is responsible as much as the person who ordered the change.
I could not agree more. We are all responsible for our actions and the results our actions cause. "I was just following orders" in no way absolves anyone of that responsibility. That you may pay a price for doing the right thing doesn't make avoiding doing it acceptable.
When that cost includes possibly losing everything your worked for and your kids suffering it ceases to be so clear cut.
If the society you live in won't look out for you in these situations, why should you look out for it? Take care of you and yours first.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the code? Yes. The person who wrote the shit is responsible as much as the person who ordered the change.
I could not agree more. We are all responsible for our actions and the results our actions cause. "I was just following orders" in no way absolves anyone of that responsibility. That you may pay a price for doing the right thing doesn't make avoiding doing it acceptable.
not everyone has the ability to quit their jobs on the spot for morality sake. there is no social safety net in america. people can't risk losing their jobs and health insurance
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#9I was listening to a podcast with Jim Rutt and he said that he encouraged people to give "bad news" and to not shoot the messenger. He was also against office politics and fired people for it. I wish more companies had this culture.
Re: 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported Wrongdoing
#10Profits before ethics..