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Interactive Common Lisp Development

n16f.net

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Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#3

Post by dmpk2k »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #2

Not sure what this for and what is it to do with interactive part of development. If you are vim people try search for vim and lisp and got there. emacs people obviously no need.

I find the content of the article far too detailed and interesting to warrant a dismissive comment.

Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#4

Post by vindarel »

To really discover what interactive, image-based CL development is about, my pointers:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBS4FeY7XM (5min) my demo to show how to resume execution of a long running program, from the stack frame right before the bug, after having fixed and recompiled the function, without quitting the debugger hence without stopping the program, thus without restarting everything from zero.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsKx40ab9SY (20min)showing what saving and restoring an image does, differences between SBCL and LispWorks.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aboMZkNDCY developing a 3D graphics software.

- https://mikelevins.github.io/posts/2020-12-18-repl-driven/

- debugging CL tools: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/debugging.html

- and no: while we could deploy a ball of mud to production, we can also not and use traditional tools and techniques: build an executable from scratch, restart the app, reload state. But we can do everything in between too (inspect the running app, change it a bit, change it a whole lot (while staying in sync with local source code), use images to speed-up development etc).

Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#5

Post by pjmlp »

vindarel wrote: post #4

To really discover what interactive, image-based CL development is about, my pointers: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBBS4FeY7XM (5min) my demo to show how to resume execution of a long running program, from the stack frame right before the bug, after having fixed and recompiled the function, without quitting the debugger hence without stopping the program, thus without restarting everything from zero. - https://…

The critic of shipping images in Common Lisp and Smalltalk is kind of ironic in the days of Docker and Kubernetes all over the place.

Thanks for the links.

Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#6

Post by dusted »

After getting sbcl up with visual studio code and the alive extension, my mind was totally blown,

I'm certain that emacs/slime is the true pure way, but for someone who's not wanting to learn emacs, alive is just pretty amazing and magic, and it fits well with what is described in the article. I wish I could do stuff like recompile functions in-place and just retry the call without exiting the process in every language in this way.

Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#9

Post by kragen »

borissk wrote: post #8

Lisp is amazing. Interesting why Python won the race to become the language of choice for the neural networks wave of AI.

well, if we categorize python and js as non-lisp languages, i'd say it's mostly because python has been the language of choice at google since last millennium, at least for situations where flexibility outweighs performance

last millennium when google started up, no lisp was a good option. clojure didn't exist, schemes were mostly for teaching, cmucl was in disrepair, and though there were proprietary common lisps, they were proprietary and wanted per-cpu license fees, which would have meant disclosing how many cpus google had—a closely guarded secret

moreover, common lisp's approach of putting a uniform but somewhat repulsive veneer over all operating systems was a pure drawback in google's all-linux environment, and s-expression syntax is harder to read than python's (if easier to edit)

also the python community was friendly and welcoming, while the scheme community was tiny and fragmented, and the common lisp community had degenerated into an ego trip for a world-class asshole named erik naggum

this is guessing from the outside; i've never worked at google, which is why i'm allowed to write this

Re: Interactive Common Lisp Development

#10

Post by ngcc_hk »

dmpk2k wrote: post #3
ngcc_hk wrote: post #2

Not sure what this for and what is it to do with interactive part of development. If you are vim people try search for vim and lisp and got there. emacs people obviously no need.

I find the content of the article far too detailed and interesting to warrant a dismissive comment.

If you look at the top post you can understand the disappointment when I click this link and got that.

Yes there are a lot of content. Just the topic is …

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