I've observed a concerning trend on LinkedIn lately that warrants a discussion within our profession. It appears that individuals with relatively minimal experience, typically in the range of 2 to 4 years, are increasingly adopting the title of "Senior Software Engineer." This practice is concering, as it may dilute the significance and respect associated with the senior designation within our field and it's inappropriate for this title to be used so callously. By prematurely adopting such titles, individuals may inadvertently undermine the true value and recognition of seniority in our profession. It's essential for the software engineering community to maintain a standard that accurately reflects the level of expertise and experience that comes with the senior role. This will not only ensure that employers can make informed decisions when hiring but also help in maintaining the integrity of our field as a whole.
Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
1–10 of 26 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#2This happens because you can't get hired unless you have the senior title on your resume. HR will throw you out.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#3How many years of experience do you think should be required until they can call themselves a senior engineer?
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#4That's why there's many layers after that. "Staff", "Principal, "Fellow", plus all the management ones.
At this point, senior just means: competent with hands and mouth.
And no they're not "adopting" the title, they're being given it by companies, partly due to title inflation.
And experience doesn't matter that much. I've managed devs with 3 years of experience who were excellent. I've also known devs with 20yrs+ who were absolutely useless. There's no substitute for IQ and conscientiousness.
So no, nothing's been undermined except the word "senior" taking it's original meaning of "old".
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#5It’s just a small part of the problem.
Other “engineers” get an engineering degree, have a system of licensure, etc. People don’t ordinarily get a degree in “software engineering” instead they get a degree in “computer science”. If you are an academic CS person you get ahead by writing papers, not writing software. Many CS academics are great programmers but they don’t necessarily have to be.
There are all sorts of divisions in our field, for instance some people will call me an idiot because I run a Windows desktop. 20 years ago that kind of hatred and ignorance was often extended towards Linux and open source by enterprises and Microsoft-culture developers.
Another thing that bugs me is the blog postings describing career paths in what used to be called FAANG where job titles are weirdly specialized like the language used by sexual subcultures like BDSM and polyarmory. I realized that those people don’t just have a fetish for talking strange, it is an interpersonal activity and that weird language helps them find each other and materializes their anxieties and power relationships. The same kind of thing is going on in the formerly called FAANG pyramids but it is not about the work it is about the social structure of those particular organizations which is quite different from where the rest of it work and like OKRs it gets appropriated like a cargo cult elsewhere.
I usually describe myself as a “software developer” and only call myself an engineer when there is a political or ideological reason to do so like those days I am shapeshifting Henry Petroski.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#6I don't see the problem. Unless you're saying that there are people in critical i.e. life or death roles who are under-qualified because they were hired based on what the called themselves. That would be a concern.
But in general, nah. I mean, the percentage of people in software who call themselves an engineers who are actually performing an engineering function is pretty small but doesn't seem to have ended the world (yet).
And tbh, if an organisation is making hiring decisions based on what someone called themselves on their resume in an unregulated field, then I'd argue that the problem is with the hirer not the hiree.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#7There some title inflation going on I think most people can see / feel that. But having said that I dont think it is unreasonable to be promoted to senior after 2-4 years at all, it all depends on the skills you have show and what level responsibility and impact you have had. Especially with a degree, you have then spent almost 8 years getting educated and working in the same field so with that in mind its even less of weird thing.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#8If you believe titles equate some sort of seniority, like your ideas/solutions are better simply because of your title and lower titles get lower respect, then that's a giant red flag for me as in a "no hire".
A Senior at a shop building web sites and apps for small/local businesses will not have the same experience as a Senior at a company scaling into millions of transactions per minute. There should be no disrespect in either direction. The stereotypical Senior working on high volume apps/sites (knows algorithms really well, can sniff out N+1 issues in their sleep, etc.) probably couldn't cut it at a small web/app shop. They may not have the social skills to sit down with local business owners and go through a web design process and make the customer happy whilst avoiding things like "I want a pink glowing button".
Titles don't mean anything across companies. When interviewing someone I don't care what their titles were, I care about the experience they gained and if that and their personality is a match for the organization.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#9It’s just a small part of the problem. Other “engineers” get an engineering degree, have a system of licensure, etc. People don’t ordinarily get a degree in “software engineering” instead they get a degree in “computer science”. If you are an academic CS person you get ahead by writing papers, not writing software. Many CS academics are great programmers but they don’t necessarily have to be. There are all sorts of d…
Other engineers also do sloppy jobs. HN simply puts too much credit to other engineers out there.
On the other side, we do have our certifications for some career paths though, like cloud and security, but I'm not sure if they instill confidence for hiring managers if such is not required by government.
Programming is supposed to be reachable and doable by anyone who loves it. We already have walls for many other things, let's keep programming from the mindset.
Re: Ask HN: Is this behavior disrespecting our profession?
#10How many years of experience do you think should be required until they can call themselves a senior engineer?
20 Years. That's around one generation of human, and 2+ generations of hype.