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Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

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Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#1

Post by aijoe »

I had no browsers open. I was minding my own business. Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing.

This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system, whose job it should be to stay out of my way and run what I tell it to.

But more than that, this strikes me as directly anti-competitive behavior. I would appreciate views on this by people having more educated opinions on this than myself.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#2

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

It is doing what it was programmed to do:

https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57

Sadly, this kind of user-hostile behavior is increasingly common and a form of enshitification (see https://doctorow.medium.com/tiktoks-enshittification-bb3f5df...) of the operating system.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#3

Post by hackermatic »

I agree with you. If you have some time, consider writing a comment to your national or state/provincial consumer protection regulator.

In the US, you can file an antitrust complaint with the FTC here: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation

...and find your state regulator here: https://www.usa.gov/state-consumer

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#4

Post by naikrovek »

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline?

(no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.)

is this how languages evolve so fast? people using words and terms without understanding them in full view of people who don't know the term, who then learn the incorrect definition?

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#5

Post by soulofmischief »

naikrovek wrote: post #4

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline? (no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.) is this how languages evolve so fast? people using wor…

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#6

Post by naikrovek »

soulofmischief wrote: post #5
naikrovek wrote: post #4

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline? (no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.) is this how languages evolve so fast? people using wor…

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect.

I'm cynical because I've been forced to be.

"copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that one copied method could be used, then a cast back to uint16 so another copied method could be used, then a cast to uint32 again so that the ultimate result could be used.

could those types have been changed in the methods so that the casts weren't needed? you bet. but it is a hastily assembled Frankenstein's monster that lives and breathes but that gives you nightmares when you look at the source code again in 1 weeks time.

today, "copypasta" is often used to mean "I copied a single method from another project, used it, and now my program is legit copypasta, lol."

I'm just tired of people using words and technical terms without understanding them. I know that it's a reality of spoken languages, but I don't have to like it.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#7

Post by intvocoder »

naikrovek wrote: post #6
soulofmischief wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect. I'm cynical because I've been forced to be. "copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that o…

It’s maybe a stretch to call 4chan speak like “copypasta” a technical term.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#9

Post by esperent »

naikrovek wrote: post #6
soulofmischief wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect. I'm cynical because I've been forced to be. "copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that o…

> told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect

Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

It's nonsense to demand that meaning of words will never change, because change over time is just how language works.

That's how we got from Chaucer, to Shakespeare, to modern English. The changes do happen fast enough to be noticeable in a single lifetime.

As you grow older, it's important to track these changes. You don't have to agree with them or like them. But sometimes you might have to accept the new meanings anyway.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#10

Post by deafpolygon »

> Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing

Not doubting you, but as a W11 home user for a while- I haven't seen this myself.

> This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system

It's not a dark pattern. It's definitely an annoying thing - how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay?

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