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Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

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Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#2

Post by Bigpet »

Fully agree with #embed. I don't really need the feature often enough to justify it. But it feels fine to use the preprocessor for it. It's annoying enough for the people who need it to have some build-system work-around, so just some simple straight forward implementation seems better than some over-specified solution for every possible use-case (imagine the horror of some template construct with locales/encoding specification added to it). Also, even if C keeps diverging from C++ having these basic constructs stay compatible is worth quite a lot imho.

Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#3

Post by jvanderbot »

I would love to see a world in which a system is designed and built from multiple languages, so that the "right" tool could be used for each part. Does this even make sense? The modern distributed web seems to be leading us there. Slowly, slowly.

I would also love to see a world where all C, C++ dependencies magically port themselves to Rust without FFI or a first-cut rewrite that a hobbyist did. 10-20 years maybe?

Unless:

> One of the concerns is that C and C++ are being discouraged for new projects by several branches of the US government[1], which makes memory safety important to address.

Reading these posts really does make it seem like C and C++ are a derided, ancient construct of better days when we trusted software engineers and didn't write code for connected systems. It's just not possible to go back to those times.

While I'm extremely interested in Rust, the ecosystem for my entire industry is based on C++ with no change in sight, and built on C operating systems. Because, to date, we write code that executes on a machine that is not taking input from a user, and so does not have the brand of security concerns that make Rust attractive (for the most part). Here, static analyzers get us what we need at the 80/20 level.

1. https://media.defense.gov/2022/Nov/10/2003112742/-1/-1/0/CSI...

Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#6

Post by samsquire »

jvanderbot wrote: post #3

I would love to see a world in which a system is designed and built from multiple languages, so that the "right" tool could be used for each part. Does this even make sense? The modern distributed web seems to be leading us there. Slowly, slowly. I would also love to see a world where all C, C++ dependencies magically port themselves to Rust without FFI or a first-cut rewrite that a hobbyist did. 10-20 years maybe? U…

I shall preface this with that I'm a beginner at C++.

I really like your idea of building a language from multiple parts.

Or multiple DSLs.

Maybe you could have a DSL for scheduling the code, a DSL for memory management and a DSL for multithreading. A DSL for security or access control And the program is weaved together with those policies.

One of my ideas lately would be how to bootstrap a language fast. The most popular languages are multi paradigm languages. What if the standard library could be written with an Interface Description Language and ported and inherited by any language by interoperability

Could you transpile a language's standard library to another language? You would need to implement the low level functionality that the standard library uses for compatibility.

I started writing my own multithreaded interpreter and compiler that targets its own imaginary assembly language.

https://GitHub.com/samsquire/multiversion-concurrency-contro...

I like Python's standard library, it works

I feel I really enjoy Java's standard library for data structures and threading.

Regarding the article, I hope they resolve coroutines completely. I want to use them with threads similar to an Nginx/nodejs event loop.

I tried to get the C++ coroutine code on GCC 10.3.1 working from this answer to my Stackoverflow post but I couldn't get it to compile. I get co_return cannot turn int into int&&.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/74520133/how-can-i-pass-...

Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#7

Post by saboot »

Still hoping for compile time introspection/reflection for class serialization. Whichever language implements it first (C++ or other) I'm all in on. I come from a scientific background, where running code on data gathering machines, and writing it out, then reading it back in later for analysis is 90% of what I do.

Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#9

Post by jcelerier »

saboot wrote: post #7

Still hoping for compile time introspection/reflection for class serialization. Whichever language implements it first (C++ or other) I'm all in on. I come from a scientific background, where running code on data gathering machines, and writing it out, then reading it back in later for analysis is 90% of what I do.

I'm curious about how you could use https://celtera.github.io/avendish for this. I've developed it to enable very easily creating media processors with the little reflection we can do currently in c++20; in my mind data gathering would not be too dissimilar of a task.

It makes me really sad reading about the objections to pack indexing as this library needs it a LOT (and currently, doing it with std::get or similar is pretty pretty bad and does not scale at all past 200 elements in terms of build time, compiler memory usage & debug build size)

Re: Soursop and Ponies in Kona: A C++ Committee Trip Report

#10

Post by netr0ute »

saboot wrote: post #7

Still hoping for compile time introspection/reflection for class serialization. Whichever language implements it first (C++ or other) I'm all in on. I come from a scientific background, where running code on data gathering machines, and writing it out, then reading it back in later for analysis is 90% of what I do.

What about making JSON that reflects the class structure and serializing that?
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